6 kw Inverter Physical Specs

Not currently smaller, though it will be a tad lighter with the smaller transformer.  Nobody ordered a 3kw back in the preorders, so we kinda shelved the idea.  Though if there is reasonable interest, we could make a physically smaller/lighter unit.  Costwise, it will have to be more than half the cost of a 6kw simply due to the large number of shared parts.

I somewhat think the 6k is over kill on the size of the unit, but that just me, I like it, though be honset, I would not put in a camper, one, the fan is way too loud, two the thing weighs a lot.  If a 3k unit could b e made with smaller fan size and case, then I can see that being used as a cmaper inverter, though I think it shouyld only be a 120v, not a split, if you want to do 6k split for a camper then get two of them, cause most campers are either 30a 120v, or 50a 230v.  So having a 120v 3k would be perfect for a camper.  I ran my toy hauler camper off of my PJ with no issue.

I wonder if in a future 3K and 6K unit possibly even 12k or 24 k you could use 2 smaller toroidal transformers wired in reverse parallel on the input with the outputs phased and wired in series with the center series connection being neutral much like the larger transformers so that each toroid is handling a single 120v half of the split phase so that the weight and cooling can be more evenly distributed within the case with potentially smaller toroid's in use since the heat would be distributed more to help reduce the weight.  Not sure if this would work well or be horribly inefficient but it may be worth a shot in the future even if just as a proof of concept because weight and heat distribution would only improve things if it doesn't come at a big loss to efficiency.  Just spit-balling ideas.

Nope won't work, I've already thought of that, and Sid shot it down with a silver bullet.

Pj is so limited onm how the can bend and shap the metal is the main issue.  I already thought of a case redesign that would basicly take the inverter and make it the half the size, , but Sid would shoot that down as well.  cut the case in half, stake the boards on the bottem and the coil on top, with the fan still on top as it is now, have the connections all on the back side, have the display on the bottem front, and the other fan on the bottem as well, with the vents on the side, .  Would save on size of shipping box, make it even more stragoner, and stand on the floor or heck mont it on the well with a bracket that attaches to the b ack side with bolts to allow for cableing to have room and your good to go.  Would take less metal and bending.have where you can open the top and then have it where it bolts on the bottem side that holding all the boards and such. 

2 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

Pj is so limited onm how the can bend and shap the metal is the main issue.  I already thought of a case redesign that would basicly take the inverter and make it the half the size, , but Sid would shoot that down as well.  cut the case in half, stake the boards on the bottem and the coil on top, with the fan still on top as it is now, have the connections all on the back side, have the display on the bottem front, and the other fan on the bottem as well, with the vents on the side, .  Would save on size of shipping box, make it even more stragoner, and stand on the floor or heck mont it on the well with a bracket that attaches to the b ack side with bolts to allow for cableing to have room and your good to go.  Would take less metal and bending.have where you can open the top and then have it where it bolts on the bottem side that holding all the boards and such. 

Basicly cut the current GS invert in half, take the front turn it backwards stack it on top of the rear, move the display to the cut area and boom your done,  still same air area, would still cool just as good, and with a bracket useing 10m bolts with four or six mounting holds you can attach a bracket that has those mounting rails  to put on the wall, make those rails a bit bigger to pusht he unit out a  bit to allow for the cabling.  This would one, provide a better packing for shipping the unit out, two make it more compact. and just make it look like a new type of inverter then all the boring rest that are long and just plain square shoe boxes. .  Make it look more like a Mac Mini and hey even have a way to change colors. I want candy apple yello inverters. . ., 

7 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

Nope won't work, I've already thought of that, and Sid shot it down with a silver bullet.

Ha, LOL.

2 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

I already thought of a case redesign that would basicly take the inverter and make it the half the size, ,

It's not possible to reduce the case size by half.  It is possible to redistribute the internals, but the cubic size will remain largely the same.  There simply aren't scads of extra room in the chassis.  We've had to enlarge the chassis slightly from the PJ defaults simply because we couldn't get the (much bigger) tranny to fit.  Shortened it in other dimensions because we didn't need the extra room.

With the up-and-coming GS mainboards/MOS boards (once I get past fixing things for customers!), there'll be a bit of extra room in the chassis--but we can't reduce the width of the chassis without running afoul of UL requirements for minimum dimensions to "live" parts (like the transformer) from holes (ventilation or otherwise) in the chassis.

36 minutes ago, kuhrd said:

I wonder if in a future 3K and 6K unit possibly even 12k or 24 k you could use 2 smaller toroidal transformers wired in reverse parallel on the input with the outputs phased and wired in series with the center series connection being neutral much like the larger transformers so that each toroid is handling a single 120v half of the split phase so that the weight and cooling can be more evenly distributed within the case with potentially smaller toroid's in use since the heat would be distributed more to help reduce the weight.  Not sure if this would work well or be horribly inefficient but it may be worth a shot in the future even if just as a proof of concept because weight and heat distribution would only improve things if it doesn't come at a big loss to efficiency.  Just spit-balling ideas.

An idea for sure...but it complicates wiring and mounting--as now we need TWO transformer mounts, etc.  If we were making super-long "torpedo chassis", it'd be something worth considering.  PJ has historically used up to 3 toroids in a row--but they don't do that anymore.  As loath as they are to make any significant changes, there must be a reason that they don't do that anymore.

I wouldn't say that splitting the phases into 2 separate toroids will help "evenly distribute" the heat...unless the loads are perfectly balanced.  Otherwise, whichever phase has the heavier load will be hotter and require more cooling.  Using a single large transformer evenly distributes the heat (no matter how imbalanced) in one location.

I do not see any way that using multiple smaller toroids would decrease weight at all.  Actually it seems to go the OPPOSITE direction.  We've tested the 6kw inverter tranny to hold a steady 130F at full rated load--and that's roughly a 65lb inverter.  The 12k I seem to recall coming in just over 120lbs--and despite pulling upwards of 10kw (before the FETs blew), the transformer has never gone over room temperature.  In short: we don't know what the safe power limit is for that transformer.  It might be well past 12kw--and if my memory serves me correctly, it may weigh slightly less than two 6kw GS transformers that will redline at 12kw total.  Not to mention using LESS space than 2 6kw GS transformers.
About the only way to reduce weight would be to go a-la PJ...use smaller tranny cores, thinner wire, cheaper parts--and put garish fancy labels boasting 60kw continuous operation.  We're already using aluminum wire on the trannies--costs less, weighs less...

5 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

Basicly cut the current GS invert in half, take the front turn it backwards stack it on top of the rear, move the display to the cut area and boom your done,  still same air area, would still cool just as good, and with a bracket useing 10m bolts with four or six mounting holds you can attach a bracket that has those mounting rails  to put on the wall, make those rails a bit bigger to pusht he unit out a  bit to allow for the cabling.  This would one, provide a better packing for shipping the unit out, two make it more compact. and just make it look like a new type of inverter then all the boring rest that are long and just plain square shoe boxes. .

I can give you a mental picture of what this would look like:

1. Take the current GS 6kw inverter, stand it long-side-up.
2. Have an elephant sit on it.
3. Voila, the new form factor 🤣🤪.  (Hahaha.) 

There are already Chinese LF inverters on the market that have this form factor; PJ has dabbled with it in the long past.  They just become very difficult to mount or locate due to the boxy squarish shape.  I couldn't fit one into my solar closet for that matter.

It will actually increase shipping weight, as the chassis surface area would remain basically the same--but then we would have to fabricate mounting for the control board over the transformer.

9 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

Make it look more like a Mac Mini and hey even have a way to change colors. I want candy apple yello inverters. . ., 

Fun fact: the reason that Power Jack inverters went to plain stainless steel?  The powder coating factory they used, either went out of business or relocated.  They don't have a way to powder coat the metal anymore.

9 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

 

 

An idea for sure...but it complicates wiring and mounting--as now we need TWO transformer mounts, etc.  If we were making super-long "torpedo chassis", it'd be something worth considering.  PJ has historically used up to 3 toroids in a row--but they don't do that anymore.  As loath as they are to make any significant changes, there must be a reason that they don't do that anymore.

I wouldn't say that splitting the phases into 2 separate toroids will help "evenly distribute" the heat...unless the loads are perfectly balanced.  Otherwise, whichever phase has the heavier load will be hotter and require more cooling.  Using a single large transformer evenly distributes the heat (no matter how imbalanced) in one location.

I do not see any way that using multiple smaller toroids would decrease weight at all.  Actually it seems to go the OPPOSITE direction.  We've tested the 6kw inverter tranny to hold a steady 130F at full rated load--and that's roughly a 65lb inverter.  The 12k I seem to recall coming in just over 120lbs--and despite pulling upwards of 10kw (before the FETs blew), the transformer has never gone over room temperature.  In short: we don't know what the safe power limit is for that transformer.  It might be well past 12kw--and if my memory serves me correctly, it may weigh slightly less than two 6kw GS transformers that will redline at 12kw total.  Not to mention using LESS space than 2 6kw GS transformers.
About the only way to reduce weight would be to go a-la PJ...use smaller tranny cores, thinner wire, cheaper parts--and put garish fancy labels boasting 60kw continuous operation.  We're already using aluminum wire on the trannies--costs less, weighs less...

 

I was thinking more along the line of the increased surface area due to using 2 separate transformers since smaller transformers would provide more square surface area even if the combined mass is the same.  This increase in surface area should (at least in theory) allow you to cool the transformers better.  I would also think that copper windings would be far more efficient in both heat conduction away from the core along with over 30% greater current carrying capability even if they weigh more.  Either way, I was just trying to think outside the box to get the weight more evenly distributed more than anything.

True that.  Probably could use a smaller transformer core with copper wire, though the increased cost might not justify the weight savings.  Something to think about maybe 😉.

Well, actually it would be shorter, the controller and boards would be on the bottem not the top of the coil. this would also balance the weight, and keep everything centered and not be long, width wise would stay the same the length is what I'm talking about,  it would be basicly like I got my inverters on the wall up and down, but shorter and the connections would all be in the back and away fromn fingers, as well as the display would be in the front with the fan on top and maybe move the rear fan to the bottem under the boards to cool them, though keeping it where it is right now would be fine, since its where the battery bolts are.  you could really have it litterly sitting or bolted down to the floor, and get rid of the rails and have that as a optional part to attch to mount on the wall.

I'm not sure if Kurt got a GS or not, but dang those fans, at 25% makes my AC fan look punnie.  I mean it moves air, I can only guess what it would be like at 100%.

50 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

Well, actually it would be shorter, the controller and boards would be on the bottem not the top of the coil. this would also balance the weight, and keep everything centered and not be long, width wise would stay the same the length is what I'm talking about,  it would be basicly like I got my inverters on the wall up and down, but shorter and the connections would all be in the back and away fromn fingers, as well as the display would be in the front with the fan on top and maybe move the rear fan to the bottem under the boards to cool them, though keeping it where it is right now would be fine, since its where the battery bolts are.  you could really have it litterly sitting or bolted down to the floor, and get rid of the rails and have that as a optional part to attch to mount on the wall.

I don't think you realize how much of a wrecking ball those trannies turn into if the inverter is dropped in shipping.  Mounting the transformer above the control board is basically asking for the control board to get crushed in shipping--or requiring the adding of significant weight to the inverter with a VERY sturdy shelf to mount the tranny.  No, we can't put ventilation holes in the shelf--or it'll buckle when (not if!) the inverter is dropped in shipping.

But THEN with a top-mounted transformer, the inverter will be top-heavy and prone to tipping over.

Yes, <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="/profile/23-kuhrd/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="23" href="/profile/23-kuhrd/" rel="">@kuhrd has a GS inverter.

1 hour ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

I don't think you realize how much of a wrecking ball those trannies turn into if the inverter is dropped in shipping.  Mounting the transformer above the control board is basically asking for the control board to get crushed in shipping--or requiring the adding of significant weight to the inverter with a VERY sturdy shelf to mount the tranny.  No, we can't put ventilation holes in the shelf--or it'll buckle when (not if!) the inverter is dropped in shipping.

But THEN with a top-mounted transformer, the inverter will be top-heavy and prone to tipping over.

 

Yes, <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="/profile/23-kuhrd/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="23" href="/profile/23-kuhrd/" rel="">@kuhrd has a GS inverter.

well, the shelf is already a shelf, you don't take the metal that is already there, there is still a serperation and the support is still the same, your not changing basicly anything but stacking it instead of making it longer length wise your makeing it taller. and it would actually bebe more solid as my design then the way it is now, you won't have a heavy end and the box would be square not long like a torpedo. 😛  You keep the bottem as it is where the coil is that goes on top, the top on the rear of the controll board that metal the screen area gets folded down where the cut is made and the screen and button is facing outwords,  the coil area just gets moutned above that opening and a metal cover is place over the cut out area in the front since  the ac connecors in the back, move the two outles to the front .  Yes the weight would be on the top, and you could reverse put the coil on bottem and boards on top, but, then you run into the fan for the coil not being on top..  the unit will be square enough if sat on the floor its not going to tilt over, unless you are going to have your kid play with it as a lego set.

I used the measurements of the unit sitting here as shipped.😉 And 65 lbs was the shipping weight which way exceeds what I'm supposed to be lifting. By 45lbs.

That's what the screw holes are for. Anchoring it down........................ wait, mine isn't because it is sitting on a shelf and the cables prevent it from moving much. One of these days I'll put a couple of screws in the holes into the shelf. But after 600 hours of running, it hasn't moved yet.