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Double wired is done every day and is done per code. Take a look at how power is transported even on HV lines.
I know there are some exceptions like explained in the NEC, but don't think running new wires for an inverter meet this criteria. Putting picture from my NEC book.
7 minutes ago, AquaticsLive said:I know there are some exceptions like explained in the NEC, but don't think running new wires for an inverter meet this criteria. Putting picture from my NEC book.
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Got to love all these pictures. . . looks like they are well plain air to mean. . . So watermen saying about more then one wire connection, the other guy saying basicly its a no no by code? geesh. How about having battery banks inside your house voids your insurance if they go up in flame. . .
4 minutes ago, AquaticsLive said:I know there are some exceptions like explained in the NEC, but don't think running new wires for an inverter meet this criteria. Putting picture from my NEC book.
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Hey, it all depends on how big your inverter or generator are.😉 The 40 kW genset outside could use 2 1/0 wires per leg to get to our transfer switch. I'd rather use a single 3/0 wire per leg though.
4 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:Got to love all these pictures. . . looks like they are well plain air to mean. . . So watermen saying about more then one wire connection, the other guy saying basicly its a no no by code? geesh. How about having battery banks inside your house voids your insurance if they go up in flame. . .
Yeah, like I said take before my electrical hat and just be safe about it. Make sure that on both ends the wires are super tight. Essentially if it gets slightly loose under high loads can cause a fires. No insurance coverage for sure.
6 minutes ago, Waterman said:Hey, it all depends on how big your inverter or generator are.😉 The 40 kW genset outside could use 2 1/0 wires per leg to get to our transfer switch. I'd rather use a single 3/0 wire per leg though.
Yes, the big boy wires for buildings. 500 Mcm is what was ran on the last building project I helped with and that was the max size they ran.
2 minutes ago, AquaticsLive said:Yeah, like I said take before my electrical hat and just be safe about it. Make sure that on both ends the wires are super tight. Essentially if it gets slightly loose under high loads can cause a fires. No insurance coverage for sure.
Yes, the big boy wires for buildings. 500 Mcm is what was ran on the last building project I helped with and that was the max size they ran.
We ran some 600 THWN doubled at work. Real pain in the you know where to pull any distance. And then had to go back and pull a third one as the estimated loads changed. We cheated though, we had installed 4 conduits so it wasn't hard to get the wire in, it just was a pain to bend to feed around the corners. 800 Amps 3phase 480V went to 1200Amp 3 phase 480V and the breaker had to be changed out hot. Was not a fun day changing it nor was pulling the extra wires. Thru 4 in ground pull boxes and 3 90° turns and a distance of about 300 feet. Actual load was about 900 Amps when everything was running. The input side was run by the power company from their transformer vault as if I remember correctly, 2 1250mcm cables. Would I do that kind of work now days, heck no.
3 minutes ago, Waterman said:We ran some 600 THWN doubled at work. Real pain in the you know where to pull any distance.
I can imagine, at least the prices aren't as bad now days. Yeah I cut back on electrical jobs too only side projects with PLC conveyor work mostly because its enjoyable and good company.
Type Z Cu #10 wire and type FEP/FEPB #10 wire can handle 55 & 60 Amps legally. But who the heck wants to pay those prices? $1 a foot for FEP 200°C wire. Compare that with THHN #6 at $0.65 a foot.
Type Z Cu #10 wire and type FEP/FEPB #10 wire can handle 55 & 60 Amps legally. But who the heck wants to pay those prices? $1 a foot for FEP 200°C wire. Compare that with THHN #6 at $0.65 a foot.
Nice to have options for sure. I like the Arctic Ultraflex its some nice flexible wire for the price gives you good ampacity.
5 hours ago, Waterman said:Double wired is done every day and is done per code. Take a look at how power is transported even on HV lines. Not just one wire or two wires but 3 wires per phase. When you get down to pole transformers, it often is doubled wire to get it from the transformer to the weatherhead. Do I like it, not really but I know that in many cases has to be done. Try pushing 1200 Amps thru a single wire at 480 Volts sometime and still being able to make bends. What I hate worse is circuit breaker panels that use 4 100 Amp breakers to get a 200 Amp 240 Volt service. As for 50 Amp, I use #6 wire. And mostly 90°C or 105°C rated wire at that.
As far as code goes, it doesn't allow paralleling smaller than 1/0. I personally would parallel #10 temporarily until I jiggered a better way. The parallel breakers making up a 200 amp main is different than just using 4 individual breakers because the main will have an internal common trip mechanism.
It would probably be best to have a set of lugs sized for a single wire that will handle the full load.
2 hours ago, AquaticsLive said:I can imagine, at least the prices aren't as bad now days.
2 hours ago, Waterman said:Type Z Cu #10 wire and type FEP/FEPB #10 wire can handle 55 & 60 Amps legally. But who the heck wants to pay those prices? $1 a foot for FEP 200°C wire. Compare that with THHN #6 at $0.65 a foot.
I'm guessing you guys haven't bought wire in a while... It's through the roof. The highest I've ever seen it, and I've been letting the smoke out of stuff for a long time🤣
I bought 200 feet of 6-2 MC cable Wednesday for $1100🤬. 500 feet of #12 stranded THHN is over $100. 12-2 Romex was $55 for 250 feet a couple months ago is now $125. It's insanity.
2 hours ago, InPhase said:As far as code goes, it doesn't allow paralleling smaller than 1/0. I personally would parallel #10 temporarily until I jiggered a better way. The parallel breakers making up a 200 amp main is different than just using 4 individual breakers because the main will have an internal common trip mechanism.
It would probably be best to have a set of lugs sized for a single wire that will handle the full load.
Nope. The breakers are 4 of the same ones riveted together. The only common is the riveted section on the handles. And yes, I know that the code says that except in certain cases. Instrumentation being one, control being another, and above 350kHz as another. In those cases the breakers/fuses must be such that each wire has its own rated for the load that the wire is rated for. Want to tell me how you would get a #6 wire into a terminal on a MakeSkyBlue 60Amp charge controller. So two #10 is how it is done. Or use #10 AWG rated at 200°C which allows 60 Amps on a single #10 FEP/FEPB wire.
1 hour ago, InPhase said:
I'm guessing you guys haven't bought wire in a while... It's through the roof. The highest I've ever seen it, and I've been letting the smoke out of stuff for a long time🤣
I bought 200 feet of 6-2 MC cable Wednesday for $1100🤬. 500 feet of #12 stranded THHN is over $100. 12-2 Romex was $55 for 250 feet a couple months ago is now $125. It's insanity.
Prices I quoted were current as of 5/7/2021. And I never buy Romex. 6-2 MC with ground is $655 for 250 feet with THHN 90°C wire. $140 in April and $500 in Oct to the local electrical supply house. And that was just for me with wire, plugs, and receptacles. The Oct one included 150feet of 6-4 SJOOW cable. Are you buying from a wholesaler or Home Despot?
5 hours ago, Waterman said:Nope. The breakers are 4 of the same ones riveted together. The only common is the riveted section on the handles. And yes, I know that the code says that except in certain cases. Instrumentation being one, control being another, and above 350kHz as another. In those cases the breakers/fuses must be such that each wire has its own rated for the load that the wire is rated for. Want to tell me how you would get a #6 wire into a terminal on a MakeSkyBlue 60Amp charge controller. So two #10 is how it is done. Or use #10 AWG rated at 200°C which allows 60 Amps on a single #10 FEP/FEPB wire.
Yes, 4 identical breakers riveted together that have a spindle between them to trip them all simultaneously. It isn't just a handle tie. As far as MakeSkyBlue, who knows why the Chinese do what they do. I never owned one, but my now-stolen Epever 40 amp controller had terminals that fit #6 with room to spare. I have a bunch of wire pin reducers that I use when the wire is too big for the terminal that I would crimp on otherwise I suppose.
5 hours ago, Waterman said:Prices I quoted were current as of 5/7/2021. And I never buy Romex. 6-2 MC with ground is $655 for 250 feet with THHN 90°C wire. $140 in April and $500 in Oct to the local electrical supply house. And that was just for me with wire, plugs, and receptacles. The Oct one included 150feet of 6-4 SJOOW cable. Are you buying from a wholesaler or Home Despot?
The 6-2 MC from the wholesale, the THHN from Home Desperate, which, unless you're buying thousands of feet, has the best small wire prices. The wholesale can't touch it below 10000 feet. Loss leader etc. You've got some great pricing in these times of skyrocketing materials, or you're buying a chit ton of it. What's lumber cost for you?
Sounds like the prices are not going down everywhere yet. Here they went down recently at my local electrical supply in Iowa. Still not great, but my guess that once they got the prices up there a couple years ago they didn't want to lower them again too much.
What's lumber cost for you?
I don't do construction but looked at my local sales flyer for today. Its still really high but getting better. $9.25 for 2"x4"x8' That's at Menards in Iowa. My brother-in-law is a construction contractor so I always hear his stories from my sister he has been busy as hell even with the prices being so high.
What is it like over there?