20,000watt AMG version PowerJack LF PSW SP

maybe it will do 10k ???

Will NOT do  10kw .      ASL 7 or asl 8 transformer  is  NOT a  transformer  known for PJ  inverter .     Your  ASL 6.5  in the 15kw  is a good transformer  .    ASL9.0  and ASL10.0     and  ASL11.0  are good  PJ  transformer  but the number of strands  for the  L2  winding  are  wrong .    I think  the  center bolt  mounting  do not allow  more  strands for  the      L2  winding .     

PowerJack 20000 watt LF PSW SP AMG received Friday May 20th 2022:

the transformer measured at 10 inches across when i removed the top. it has 3 transformer hold downs 2 are coated with a black insulating material and the third one over top the other two is a stainless steel wider hold down measures about 10&5/8 inches across that wider hold down. 

the chassis box is the same form factor as the 26000 watt AMG but one thing i noted was the two round plugs to connect Thors Note  Book are on the other end of the front panel... have to see if the transformer is on the other end but other wise it is the same size stainless steel case as the 26000 watt one...with the six round support feet on the bottom...

it is a heavy beast to maneuver around....wish i had it on wheels or a hydraulic cart but of course i did not....Will Prowse showed a scissor jack hydraulic cart for loading his heavy server batteries onto a Dewalt rack...i need one of that type of scissor lifting cart or a Hoosier that they use to lift handicapped people into and out of bed....my back keeps telling me get better tools....hahaha🤣🤣🤣 

I see Sean say he will need a second person for their 150 pound gs-12k inverters....i am sure a lift would do the trick most of the time....heavy darn things...

I forgot to look for the transformer tag....but I did note it has two hall type sensors and at least one of the ring inductors with windings through it next to the transformer.

it appeared to have 24 mosfets on each short main board and 3 can-type electrolytic capacitors plus the red blob type capacitor on the short main boards... i could not see under the second control bard to get a good look at the second short main board but expect it is similar design...

so that would be 48 mosfets and six of the can type capacitors.....

did not see any shipping damage whatso ever ..... so that is a good thing so far....

I will have to tip it to get a picture of the lasered ASL transformer ring rating on the bottom of the stainless steel case another day...always forget something to do...

no charging or ups or LCD screens on this one,,,but I do have a Thor's Note Book i could hook up to it...with two LCD screens....

I do not want the charging as i will never hook it up to the grid.....strictly off grid.....

the transformer measured at 10 inches across when i removed the top. it has 3 transformer hold downs 2 are coated with a black insulating material and the third one over top the other two is a stainless steel wider hold down measures about 10&5/8 inches across that wider hold down.

My  ASL9.0  is 10 inch diameter .  I think your transformer has a  ASL9.0  core with AMG  winding  spec .   it is a 48-volt inverter described above... the 20k I just received Friday .... took about 27 days to arrive....via the slow boat ride...for $427.75 including tax and free shipping.    Your inverter is  worth  twice  what you paid as  it has  a good    transformer  which can  do  6500 watts  with  some modication  .    I  would remove the  center bolt and all  transformer mount brackets .   I would  add 2  Delta  12v fan  about  20 dollars each from ebay  wired to a 12v external power supply .    I add a 10uf capacitor between  L2 and neutral  .      PJ  now have a choke on the transformer  primary  winding  to reduce the standby wattage .    My  ASL9.0  will do 6500 watts for 2 hours at  80 degree F.   but  can NOT  use now  when the temperature  is over 100 degree  every day .     I  like to get a  12 kw or higher  inverter  before summer or have to  wait  till next year and not use the heat  pump .   The haet pump  cost over 500  dollars a month to run  and that is  over 2000 dollars for 4 months  as the power company charge  4 times more  for the summer like  50 cents per kwh .  I  was surprise  when the  power company  send me a email  when  their smart meter show that my heat pump is OFF .   Sean  video say the power company  is watching  and that is not good .  

powerjack 20k amg psw sp lf inverter:

yes, it would make the most sense to cool with solar PV electricity with a capable inverter.... wonder if one could cycle them on and off to operate the heat pump....no one wants a $500 per month electric bill from the grid monopolies....

I will do more in time.... slow as always but all is off grid.....

the solar shed has been open to help cool it with a screen door... temperature goes up and down all the time....

today is is breezy and about 64 degrees so a pleasant sun day...rain in forecast...

yes I think it had at least one choke on the transformer...have to get a light and glasses out to see it better....maybe in a couple days....

and 2 of the hall sensors ...one on the covered white secondary wire winding coming out of the toroidal transformer and one on the red set of wires....have to look at it a bit closer when all the inquisitive children are sleeping... don t need the extra tool re-arrangers!!!! 

have a great day...😎

yes I suspect the electrical monopolies are looking for more ways to gouge the off-grid solar pv set ups....i would give them the bird....🤣🤣🤣their motive is more green backs from the consumers....🤔🤔🤔

That's not bad compared to us in the UK. Normal day-rate now is over 30p/kWh which is about same as your highest rate. Thankfully summers are rarely hot enough hear to need AC heat pump, but in winter we need a lot of heating and unless you live somewhere where wood is easy and cheap to get (I don't as I live in a suburban area) then you are reliant on grid-supplied gas or electricity for heating.

However the saving grace, if you call it that, is that our houses are generally much smaller than what USA citizens are accustomed to, and there is a reduced rate for electricity from 00:30 to 07:30GMT which in our case with no grid gas supply is used to feed 'storage heaters'. I don't know if you have them in the USA but they became popular here in the 1970's and 80's when there was a large installed base of nuclear power stations which needed a stable base-load, as they were not able to change output on a 12-hour basis. As little as 5 years ago, night rate was 4p/kWh compared to day rate of 18p/kWh. Unfortunately in the last 5 years a lot of nulcear plants have been decommissioned and so the price differential between day and night rate has been greatly eroded.

I started playing with off-grid solar about 4 years ago as being an old, small house it has a lot more land than most similar sized modern properties so I've been able to install quite a few ground mounted panels. But due to adjacent properties and foliage it doesn't produce much in the coldest winter months.

Thankfully summers are rarely hot enough hear to need AC heat pump

I  live in  the  southwest  USA  which is  nothing like 90 percent of the USA  where  the inverter  need to be  cool in an RV  or in  a  air condition shed .   Last year I  cycle the  heat pump  as the PJ  inverter overheat in the summer .    I  run the heat pump  for one hour with the inverter and  shut down for 2 hours  to let the inverter cool  and then  cycle the  heat pump again for  one hour .   Now I  run the swamp cooler  or a portable  AC  to cool one room .   For the other  8 months I  run the  PJ inverter  for 16 hours  to  24 hours every day  so almost no power from the  grid  and the power company  do not like DIY solar .    Actually  the PJ  with the rev 11.1 or  the rev 11.3  control board  is the  best  design  by PJ  as I never  blow up  FETs  for over a year .     The PJ  rev 10.3 control board  will blow up  FETs  when the FETs  go over 140 degree F  or if the transformer overheat .     

11 hours ago, dickson said:

Thankfully summers are rarely hot enough hear to need AC heat pump

I  live in  the  southwest  USA  which is  nothing like 90 percent of the USA  where  the inverter  need to be  cool in an RV  or in  a  air condition shed .   Last year I  cycle the  heat pump  as the PJ  inverter overheat in the summer .    I  run the heat pump  for one hour with the inverter and  shut down for 2 hours  to let the inverter cool  and then  cycle the  heat pump again for  one hour .   Now I  run the swamp cooler  or a portable  AC  to cool one room .   For the other  8 months I  run the  PJ inverter  for 16 hours  to  24 hours every day  so almost no power from the  grid  and the power company  do not like DIY solar .    Actually  the PJ  with the rev 11.1 or  the rev 11.3  control board  is the  best  design  by PJ  as I never  blow up  FETs  for over a year .     The PJ  rev 10.3 control board  will blow up  FETs  when the FETs  go over 140 degree F  or if the transformer overheat .     

Remind me which PJ you have? I thought I read somewhere on these forums there was a design flaw with the 11.x boards that will shut down if load exceeds 4kW, which meant it was of no use with large heat pumps.

I'm currently running an ancient 2013 PJ 8k (4k usable) with the rev 1.4 boards, and new fans with 2-speed temperature control - half speed via a resistor continually, going to full speed if any of the three 45 deg C thermal switches engage. The garage where it is located rarely exceeds 35 deg C. This unit stays on pretty much 24/7 during the summer months supplying about 75% of our total usage.

I also have a upower 8k unit, which has rev 10.3 mainboards and some extra components dangling on the end of the wire tied into the dip switches and a few other places. This is the most useless of all - at about 3kW the output 'folds back' to less than half the correct voltage and doesn't restore until the inverter is power-cycled.

Finally I have a set of 11.1 boards which I have built into my 'home brew' inverter which I have yet to finish building. This coupled with my home-wound toroid has been tested up to 3.5kW for about 30 mins with no issue, but I have yet to add the finishing touches and put it into permanent service.

Finally I have a set of 11.1 boards which I have built into my 'home brew' inverter which I have yet to finish building. This coupled with my home-wound toroid has been tested up to 3.5kW for about 30 mins with no issue

That was me  with the PJ  15kw  running the  4 ton heat pump with the original  rev 10.3 control board  (still working )  .   I  replace the rev 10.3  control board (still good)  last year with the  rev 11.1 control board  and now has a hard time  running the 4 ton  heat pump .   My 15kw with the rev 11.1 contol board  will shut down  with 4.5 kw  load  almost every  time  so now I run a  14000 btu  porable  AC to cool one room in the summer .  The  rev 11.1  and the rev 11.3 control board  manage to  shut down the inverter instantly with any  inductive surge  overload every time and  save  the  FETs .   The rev 10.3 control board  do not shut down when  the FETs get to 140 degree F  with inductive load .  I  think  your  inverter with the rev 11.1 control bord  will not blow up the FETs  also but will shut if the inductive surge is too high  ( I  do not know how high but it shut and save the FETs every time  and I  try  many time and the FETs never blow )    I  change the rev 10.3 control board in my PJ 8kw with the rev 11.1 control board  and also never blow up the FETs .   

My  utility company cost is 10 cent per kwh for  Oct to May  and  about  40 dollars per month  using the PJ  inverter .   The minimum  cost is 35 dollars per month if  I  use no  grid  power .    I  live a few miles fron a nuclear power plant  and maybe  that is why winter rate is low for people who do NOT have grid-tie solar .   The utility charge people  with grid-tie solar  100 dollrs per month  and  on rainy day or at night  the cost is  40 cent per kwh  all year from the grid .   If the grid-tie solar produce more power to feed back to the utility then  they get pay 4 cents per kwh .    What a  scam to have  grid-tie  solar  ?  

Boards back at that era are considered the "Holy Grail" by PJ enthusiasts...it's been all downhill from there.  I managed to get my hands on a Rev. 3.6 control board set recently...it uses a different processor than all the newer ones.  Which doesn't speak to a processor fault as much as a firmware issue 😉.

 exactly!!!!  another good reason to be off-grid solar, just a monopoly scam to overcharge you.... I personally have no interest in grid-tie at the moment because when the grid goes down as it does periodically, then most grid-tie systems just poo poo on you and shut down unless you spend a bunch for a hybrid system with tons of regulation and permitting, just to have the electrical monopoly scam you for no real payback...

i went through a grid down for over 3 days in the bitter cold winter and caused a lot of damage to things about 30 years ago....so not much faith in their system reliability..

A classmate texted me about the expected electrical blackouts in Texas where her daughter lives....they are looking at a generator system with solar panels and such from Generac... for me i do not care for the petroleum generators....but they may save your hind end in a pinch.... noisy inefficient polluting things(petrol powered generators).. i wore out 4 of them in Bolivia off-grid but have grid there now...

there is no grid-tie incentive in South Dakota so another reason why not to hook up to their monopoly grid system...

self-sufficiency off-grid is the goal >>>> not to line the corporate monopoly pockets any more than I have too.

DIY off-grid is the direction....for me 🤔🤔🤔😎😎😎 

Grid-tie sounds like even more of a scam over there than it is here. However roll back 10 years and it was very lucrative due to goverment backed feed-in tarriffs which guaranteed £0.25/kWh for 25 years from date of connection. At the time that was more than double the normal grid day rate so was great. Effectively you could use the grid as a 'free battery' to store your excess energy during the summer/daytime and buy it back, even cheaper, when you needed it in winter/night. However that has been eroded over the years and now the average feed-in tarriff is just £0.04/kWh, yet the nominal daytime rate now for grid power is £0.32/kWh. So grid tie is almost as much a scam as it is over there now.

My DIY system is entirely off-grid. I just added a changeover switch on the lighting circuit and one socket ring which covers most rooms of the house so that I can switch them between the inverter output and grid power whenever I desire. I don't have any expectation that I'll ever go completely off-grid here, but at least it gives some degree of indepenance without having to jump through any hoops with regulations and certification. At first it was just because I was curious and wanted to experiment.

<a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="/profile/2-sid-genetry-solar/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="2" href="/profile/2-sid-genetry-solar/" rel="">@Sid Genetry Solar I'd love to find another set of those old boards, because like you I have concluded they are far superior to any of the recent PJ rubbish. I keep looking on ebay for faulty 'classic' PJ inverters of 8kW+ but not seen any lately. Best I got was a 3k unit (still working fine) with v3 boards. I guess the control board could be used with a larger mainboard for higher output? However I don't know whether those old control boards would be compatible with the 'modern' PJ mainboards. I'm reluctant to try in case I get the pinout wrong or something and let the magic smoke out of both!

So there's a LOT of design shenanigans that go on with the PJ stuff.  A huge part of it likely has to do with a significant lack of understanding of signals and PCB routing.  This makes the older design boards better ONLY because they're laid out considerably closer to the original (copied) design--which likely was properly engineered.  The further they reorganize the parts from that design, the worse things get...simply due to PCB layout, circuit changes notwithstanding.

Case in point here: PJ has largely quit using the "large" mainboard because the design flaws are so serious.  We at GS tried utilizing a large mainboard back when we started working on the GS12--but the problems with the large PJ mainboard are considerably worse than the "mid" mainboard design--because they somehow don't realize that FET gates run significant amperage.  Yes, the FET current isn't continuous (as with a "regular" bipolar transistor), but an instantaneous capacitive "change" current.  However, the FET gate signals are run on very thin traces...paralleling high power planes (capacitive coupling, anyone?)...it just doesn't work!

Pinouts are the same.  Function is the same.  There hasn't been any real innovation in the design pretty much since the beginning...

Some things are just comical.  For example, the original copied design uses a CD4011 and some transistors as an H-bridge protection shutdown (not fully traced...but the newer boards definitely do!)  However, that was done out of necessity--the original MC908MR52CFUE MCU barely has ANYTHING in the way of resources.  It's simply maxed out to run a basic inverter.
But then PJ switched to a Microchip PIC that has a fully-featured H-bridge driver...and a FAULT PWM shutdown input on it.  You would think that all of the external shutdown circuitry would be removed?  Ha...guess again 😉.

the new eg4 6500 watt inverter with mppt charge controller cost only $1299 is sold by signature solar and can be put in series to get 13000 watts for $2600 dollars....and is UL listed.... i think they are manufactured in china also.....

the inverter market seems to rapidly change kind of like processor speeds doubling in in the micro processor market every 6 months...just by making smaller transistors etc...

By the time the 30k PowerJack via the slow boat arrives they will have invented a better battery??? no lcd, or wifi, or any of that stuff, no noisy petrol generator start circuit, or automatic generator start, to ac charging, ups ,,,none of that in the 189 pound 2 stainless steel box 30k PowerJack.... have to see what arrives in a few more weeks for $1567.50 (old stock no doubt)....

my guess is they have newer models with more features coming out as well....(PowerJack)🤣🤣

if genetry solar can make e replacement upgrade to these huge transformers for a reasonable price then they would have the cat by the tail.....

beautiful day after the rain...sky is full of sun and light breeze...i take this all year!

have a great day....😎

99% chance that inverter is another Voltronics or knock off of based on the layout of the case and panel, and boards inside it.  MPP has upped their game too with some new more capable models coming (or actually by now) out.  Even though the more expensive end of the scale Voltronic's inverters HF are quite good they still have their limits when it comes to starting heavy loads and certainly are not anything to write home about regarding no load power use.

yes, I agree the eg4 will be a bit more wasteful of standby power and I do think the LF transformers will likely be a better choice for heavy loads in the end than a HF inverter. 

the big China inverter makers such as Sigineer have a 12k 15k and 18k LF inverters now with copper transformers and MPPT built in and designed for Lithium/lead acid/LiFePO4 etc....but their transformer is an H-type which does not seem to require as much fan cooling as do the aluminum wire wound transformers...

they have been out for several years and improvements keep coming....perhaps PowerJack will copy them one day ???? they are out of Shenzhen China I think....likely neighbors!!!

everything is made and copied in China it seems!!!! 🤔🤔🤔🤣🤣🤣