PJ 20K issues... Will there ever be a genetry solar controller board for it??

2 hours ago, Busky said:

1. In power saving mode it doesn't really do anything.  I have to have it in normal mode.

Yup.  That function just simply doesn't work with the stock firmware.  Even if it did, it'd only sense loads on L1.

2 hours ago, Busky said:

2. It won't start my dust collector (120V) unless there is a decent load.  If I have only a couple hundred watts load and I try to start the dust collector (inductive motor)

it won't start.  But..  If I have a 1kW heater on and then I start the dust collector, it starts fine.

Interesting.

So when it won't start the dust collector, does the inverter error out and shut down?

2 hours ago, Busky said:

I'd really like to put a genetry solar controller board on this thing.  I know there was talk in the past about adding new controller boards

to make stock PJ inverters... more genetry solar-like...

Yeah, as a way of some quick business income anyway...though at the end of the day, you're better off throwing the entire PJ inverter out and starting over.  (It's taken me 2 years to come to that conclusion after trying to fix the various issues with PJ inverters.)

The main issues with using a GS control board in a PJ inverter are:

• Wires don't fit.  You basically end up rewiring the ENTIRE inverter
  • you'll have to extend the AC output wires (as the output board is completely eliminated)
  • create new power wires for the control board (PJ doesn't have any)
  • completely remove and throw out the entire fan wiring and fans, replace with GS fans
• GS control boards only have a single FET output connector.  No place to plug in a 2nd mainboard connector (not that it helps that much!)
• You'll have to solder zener diodes on EVERY MOS board to prevent the much stronger balanced GS driver from blowing FETs out through inductive kickback in the wiring (causes random failures for seemingly no reason)
• It will be impossible to run much over 6kw out of the inverter without the FETs getting so hot that they'll literally melt the solder off their leads (before failing)--this is due to the seriously inadequate ribbon cables that carry the FET drive signals (and did I mention that said cables have literally the WORST pinout possible?)  Inductive signal crosstalk is what kills the FETs.
  • seriously doubt that the PJ inverter as it is will run much over 8-10kw continuous without overheating the transformer and/or the FETs.

2 hours ago, Busky said:

I'd love to see a wifi board for this thing!

This requires updated firmware in the CPU--which now on the unified boards, is not a simple "replace the CPU board and you're done" (back in v9 days it was!)  Now the entire PJ control board has to be replaced as part of an upgrade kit (core charge, return old board, etc., etc.)  This significantly increases the cost and complexity of the kit (even with a refundable core.)

And at the end of the day, it is extremely frustrating from a programming standpoint to work with, because there are NO certainties with a PJ inverter.  Nothing is consistent from one to another--so code that works on one inverter won't work at all on another seemingly identical unit.

We do have a couple of WiFi boards remaining in stock that could technically be used in a PJ inverter (with upgraded firmware).  Once those run out (or are used in GS inverters), that's it.  The U.S. designed power sense IC is out of stock everywhere, and there are no drop-in substitutes.  (I already tried redesigning the board to utilize a Chinese-made power sense IC, but couldn't get it to work.)  I've ended up redesigning the WiFi board to not use said power sense chip entirely.

In short: if you want to make a truly solid inverter that does what you want...you'll end up replacing every single part of the inverter, including the chassis.  Lot cheaper to just buy a GS inverter that already does what you want.

Yeah, as a way of some quick business income anyway...though at the end of the day, you're better off throwing the entire PJ inverter out and starting over.  (It's taken me 2 years to come to that conclusion after trying to fix the various issues with PJ inverters.)                   In short: if you want to make a truly solid inverter that does what you want...you'll end up replacing every single part of the inverteincluding the chassis.  Lot cheaper to just buy a GS inverter that already does what you want

It  took me two years  also  to   try  to get a  powerjack  to work better  and now gave up trying .   

Oh I forgot one more issue with the PJ inverters:

A lot of the newer ones don't even have a spot to mount an LCD.  And if you've ever tried to cut/drill stainless steel, you know that it's pretty much impossible to cut the required opening with hand tools (especially on the thicker chassis larger inverters.)

This actually was the last straw for PJ upgrade kits with a WiFi board.  No place to mount the board = no way to use it.

On 10/28/2021 at 3:27 PM, Sid Genetry Solar said:

In short: if you want to make a truly solid inverter that does what you want...you'll end up replacing every single part of the inverter, including the chassis.  Lot cheaper to just buy a GS inverter that already does what you want.

Ugh!!!  That's what I was afraid of!  Maybe I'll have to wait for the 12kW version.

On 10/28/2021 at 3:27 PM, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Interesting.

So when it won't start the dust collector, does the inverter error out and shut down?

No the inverter never shutdown. I think it just kept trying.  I don't remember the details..  but I don't recall ever seeing the error light!  I'll try the experiment again next time I play with the inverter..

2 minutes ago, Busky said:

No the inverter never shutdown. I think it just kept trying.

As an LF inverter, it should either start a load, or blow itself up trying.  Was the inverter "warping" by any chance when trying to start the load?  That might be a clue...

What do you mean by warping?

That's the best way I can describe how it sounds.  Not a steady hum, but a pulsating "sawtooth ramp" sound from the inverter.  That'd indicate a firmware throttle overflow...

EDIT: a little slower than once per second

I might have just been a voltage droop?  I have the dust collector connected to a remote..  The remote unit, I would guess, shut down with a droop?  Maybe if I took the remote out of the circuit it might have struggled and started?? 

But I do remember the lights (led) dropping for a small time.  But with the heater running..  No issues!  

I thought it might have something to do with a very small duty cycle on the fets  (with a light load) to a much bigger duty cycle.  And with the heater..  The duty cycle was greater so it didn't have to change as much to get the current to start??  I'm guessing here...

Jim

In other words, the dust collector gave up, not the inverter.

Due to the lossy transformer and chassis design, it's entirely plausible that the starting surge put a significant enough voltage drop on the inverter output that the dust collector decided to abort.