powerjack power inverter 26,000 watt AMG version 48 volt PSW LF 13,000 watt continuous at 240 volts or 120 volts etc.

 I  have 3 running 24/7 but at very low loads. 2 of them have been running continuously for over a year and the other one the 15000 watt 3 piece one has been running continuously since August.

Do  you have enough charge  in your battery to keep all 3  PJ inverters running  through the night  or do you use a generator to charge the battery at night  ?      I  only have enough  charge in my battery  to run  16 hours  with my 15kw PJ inverter during the winter ,    I  think  a GS 12kw  will only last 8 hour  at running  8000 watts  with my  battery and solar panel  .   I  live in the middle of the city and the next house is only 20 feet away   so the  inverter fan will  make too much noise at  night .    

yes, the batteries run the 3 inverters 24/7.  I do not use a generator and it is not hooked to the grid. I do not shut the inverters down, I may throttle back the usage but the inverters are running 24/7.

so as dickson noted the 12k GS inverter will cost over 2500 plus shipping Correct????

I do know that PowerJack is selling low cost inverters. if the 26,000 watt AMG version will run 6500 watt continuously for $527 dollars delivered including tax that is very competitive. id o not want or need the grid cxharging or generator charging capabilities. this is strictly an off-grid solar PV build. 

noisy generators >>> who wants that. Do not want to pay the grid either...

impossible to compete with the china PowerJack eBay sales. unless you can get the 25cent per hour workers?

still the question is what will be the real price of the 12K GS inverter? what will it weigh? 

2.5 times $1099 = 2,747.50 dollars plus tax (shipping?)

it is funny that they put enamel aluminum wire to try to make you think it is copper in the PowerJack inverters(deception is King). hope they upgrade something to make it work better. I thought it was a copper wound transformer when I received the 164 pound 20,000 watt PowerJack guiney pig inverter that they replaced. I think it cost  about $700 in 2020. I sent that to sean and 3 months later they sent me a new one.

Can't argue with a $527 inverter that will do 6500w.  Assuming it will actually do the 6500w (still to be proven).

All things considered,  if I were going to buy an inverter today, it would likely be a GS 6kw.  Two of them if I needed more than 6kw, would still be cheaper than the proposed price for the 12kw (downside being having to run two inverters).  

A 12kw Growatt lf sp inverter is about $2200 plus shipping and is a little better than buying a powerjack because what you get should be consistent (powerjack is Never  consistent).  Design is not really better than powerjack and the transformer(s) are not toroidal so larger no load.  Repairing a blown Growatt will cost about $300 for a replacement board set.

16 minutes ago, dochubert said:

A 12kw Growatt lf sp inverter is about $2200 plus shipping and is a little better than buying a powerjack because what you get should be consistent (powerjack is Never  consistent).  Design is not really better than powerjack and the transformer(s) are not toroidal so larger no load.  Repairing a blown Growatt will cost about $300 for a replacement board set.

Any discount price is due to stock here in the States.  I found this on "watts247.com" which is selling a Growatt 12kw for $2,588 regular price, currently discounted to $2,329 (not including shipping).  They did include this very interesting note:

Quote

NOTICE: YFUTURE ORDERS WILL BE AFFECTED BY SEVERE COMPONENT SHORTAGES – GROWATT NOTIFIED US THAT THE 6000T TO 12000T MODELS , THE PRODUCTION LINE HAS SLOWED (SHORTAGES)

 

Shipping costs are rising by almost $3000 per month per container, now costing 8 times more than it did 12 months ago, and we have to pass these on.

 

Due to the weight of this item  (201lbs) , we freight it to your door where possible, otherwise you may have to collect it from the closest shipping depot

So any comparison between Growatt (or other brands) and the as-yet-unconfirmed price of the GS 12kw inverter MUST keep in mind the following realities:

• Growatt weighs in at a listed 201lbs.  FREIGHT SHIPPING IS NOT CHEAP.
  • The GS 12kw inverter should weigh UNDER 150lbs, and as such can ship via regular UPS.
• The listed Growatt prices are based on the current U.S. stock--and said prices WILL be rising (due to inflation and shipping costs).
  • Genetry Solar does not have any current stock of the GS 12kw inverter, and as such our prices will have to reflect the current reality, not a delayed history.
• According to the above, Growatt inverter prices will also be rising due to a parts shortage (implied, not stated).  Genetry Solar has not been significantly affected by the parts shortage at the current time.

For example, the main processor on the PJ boards used to sell for ~$7/ea.  After that one went completely out of stock in China (been out of stock in the USA for a LONG time by then!), I managed to find them a pin-compatible "sister" chip that was actually slightly cheaper, and required only very minor code modifications to function.  That chip has gone from ~$7/ea to $30/ea (and of course has no stock in the States).  (If your PJ inverter control board has a PIC18F87K90 CPU on it, that's the replacement chip I found for 'em.  Was easy: it has an LCD driver on it, so nobody else used it, "we don't need an LCD driver."  But the LCD driver can easily be ignored.)

And of course, I found Enersave Solutions selling the Growatt 12k inverter for a cool $498,000.  Go grab yourself one before they run out of stock...!  https://www.enersavesolutions.com/product/growatt-12000w-hybrid-inverter-w-wifi-monitoring-adapter-copy/
(sorry, too late...already out of stock.  Must have been one great sales team!)

(on second glance...looks like their e-sales module has been misconfigured because all the prices are ridiculous.)

Sounds like the software used at my work place a few jobs back. It would randomly spit out ludicrous pricing.  Something that should be < $10 would be $12000.  The author, perhaps my namesake 😉 , was in house too.

These guys seem to be the top Growatt sellers at present.  Their ad says the 12kw lf sp is in stock and on sale for $1999 plus shipping.  No idea what shipping would be.  Here's the link;

https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/12kw-48w-150vac-120a-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

There are two versions available.  This one and one that is a couple hundred bucks more due to a higher solar panel input voltage.

Replacement board sets also available from same seller.

Also no idea how many 12kw inverters they have on hand.  They will probably face the same availability problems as that other seller mentioned above once current stock runs out.  They are said to actually answer phone calls so easy to get details if interested.  Me, I have no more money for new inverters right now, so will live with what I have.....

eBay has the 12k grow watt for $2049 plus $175 flat rate shipping and it has a 120 amp solar charge controller also. 

but right now I will try and suck it up with the berated $527 PowerJack 26,000 watt AMG version. and have to wait to see what the market will bring. Personally I do not want the grid interaction with the inverter and do not want or need the generator charging. I just need the inverter to function 24/7 so may have to opt for more than one running but trying to improve this weak link. the inverters are the weakest link in my off-grid build presently. 

yes I was looking at the 12k grow watt and the 12k sungold inverters also. but too many irons in the fire at the moment. 12k grow watts can not be paralleled. if one had that need for that much power at one time. It takes a big battery bank to run that much power for any real time. LiFePO4 battery prices are about 50 percent higher what they were 1.5 years ago but are the safer chemistry with up to 6000 cycle life expectancy at which point they may only have 80 percent charge capacity. by that time ( 6000 cycles) hopefully they will have better electrical storage batteries. Solar electric PV is still the best way to go with the fewest moving parts to break down.

the gs inverters have a lot going for them but they are definitely competing against the 25 cent per hour overseas work force.

For me >>> the idea is to be off-grid (and hopefully save some money on a more dependable electric power system).

I ran generators for 17 years on the pilgrim valley off-grid mountain build so I have a definite dis-like for noisy generators>>> wore out 4 of those noisy beasts.

this off-grid solar PV build is being done in South Dakota presently. working on GFCI breakers or outlets at the moment. electric components are really getting spendy! (inflation big time)

cheers all, the intent is to learn more about inverters at the moment, thanks for any and all suggestions and/ or feed back. i am not an electrical engineer (or anything close to that skill level about electric stuff), most of my electrical work has been with standard 120 240 AC in the USA.

thanks

via a google search >>> signature solar was the vendor on eBay for the 12k grow watt for $2049 and $175 flat rate shipping. not ready to try that one out yet. it does have a 120amp 150V MPPT solar charge controller  built in but I do not need all those extra capabilities built in all though the newer all in one styles lend more to the simpler plug and play scenario. so that could be a plus for some people.

sungold power 12k inverter was found on the google search $2799 with free shipping. big inverters definitely cost more and inflation is hitting everyone hard. budget is not ready/able to buy one of those either at the moment.

i am retired on a fixed income so have to try to be economical/frugal where I can.  frugal does not always come out the best especially when buying tools. buy older American made tools they are often better quality! in Bolivia we always avoid the china tools cause they were not made of good steel, the Brazilian made tools or German made tools were the ones to buy. Germans manufacture quality tools!

Retired is still working multiple projects for myself (at my pace when I choose)and not punching someone else's time clock. I have a 3 story solar building in South Dakota that I wills set up another off-grid solar PV system in the future. slow but sure. 

shipping heavy equipment is very expensive for sure! the little guy cannot get the bulk shipping discounts. 😎 

maybe a gofund me page would get you guys (Genetry Solar)up to a quantity volume to get bulk component pricing. or some sort of similar method to fund the gs inverter line. just an idea for you to ponder.

I know that Electrodacus utilized some sort of funding to help get started. garage start ups are what the USA needs. 

just a thought!

We’ll finally got around to testing the 12,000 watt amg. 
I was able to get around 6000 watts continuous, but the red alarm light was on, I don’t know how long it would run with the alarm light on, but right over 6000 then  I got audible beeps with alarm, and it shut down within a few seconds.

as Sid predicted the top and  bottom of wave form were cut off when I went above 5000 watts.

so I don’t think it would do 6000 24/7, but I do think it could do 4500 continuous.

 but right over 6000 then  I got audible beeps with alarm, and it shut down within a few seconds.

That is good  you get the red light alarm  and then the inverter shut down in 6 seconds .    My  15kw PJ with the rev 11.1 control board do the same exact alarm and shut  down  with 6000 watts and I  now run 16 hours at less than 4000 watts no problem .    Your test is what I  was waiting for the review on the AMG  to save the FETs .  Thank you .   

I plan to run a few surge tests as well. One is an old 120vac window ac, the surge is really high to start the ac, my xantrex 1800 will start it though, but I have two aims 1500 that won’t. 
 

I also will try to start my central air, I do have a soft starter on it, so the powerjack should be able to start it with ease.. more to come just need the outside temp to warm up a bit.

My 12000 AMG also can push 5000+ watts. (at least 7000W at the DC shunt) It has an ASL3 transformer, and is approximately the same weight as my GS6.

But it has a fatal problem. Certain transitions between high and low loads (and vice versa) cause the inverter to power off for a half second or so. It then immediately recovers, effectively causing a brief power outage.

One particularly bad case of this is with my well pump. It works without incident 4 out of 5 times.  The other 1 in 5 will cause the problem - either when the pump turns off, or when the pump turns on. The latter case is particularly nasty, because if the inverter "turns on" with the well pump activated, it will cycle on and off repeatedly, finally faulting with "output unstable" message.

Were it not for this issue, i'd be very pleased with it. The listing is honest about the "6Kw" continuous rating. I think it could do that in my environment as it's usually close to freezing temps. (Thermostat set for 35f) If not, it's in the ballpark at least.

Another thing of interest is it has the high speed fan that is activated by temperature. It sounds like it's going to take flight when it turns on. It's turns on usually at 2000W+ loads. Below that it's rare for the fan to turn on.

14 minutes ago, NotMario said:

finally faulting with "output unstable" message.

What gives this error?  GS doesn't have that, and the PJ doesn't have any error feedback (except for the voice IC...which unless they've changed it, doesn't have that spoken statement.)

15 minutes ago, NotMario said:

My 12000 AMG also can push 5000+ watts. (at least 7000W at the DC shunt)

How long have you tested high loading on the PJ?  (I will be very surprised the "12kw" PJ can maintain 5kw for an hour solid.)

17 minutes ago, NotMario said:

It has an ASL3 transformer, and is approximately the same weight as my GS6.

Curious what the winding specification on the transformer is then?  (Number of strands on the battery side, and number of strands on the output side.)  PJ likely also has 2 mainboards, increasing weight a bit.

13 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

What gives this error?  GS doesn't have that, and the PJ doesn't have any error feedback (except for the voice IC...which unless they've changed it, doesn't have that spoken statement.)

So this is actually a U-Power. And it's the voice that says it. She tells me to check "this board" "that board" and lists off like 6 different boards.

This problem can be avoided by turning a burner on in the kitchen when using water. But this is obviously impractical.

13 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

How long have you tested high loading on the PJ?  (I will be very surprised the "12kw" PJ can maintain 5kw for an hour solid.)

I've run the drier on it. Near the end of it's run, it pulls 5KW (this is including the baseline house load) for around 15 minutes. I haven't tried to load test it as i'm more interested in practical application. Not to mention i like my batteries. 🙂

13 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Curious what the winding specification on the transformer is then?  (Number of strands on the battery side, and number of strands on the output side.)  PJ likely also has 2 mainboards, increasing weight a bit.

I haven't opened the case to find out. (It so happens the transformer tag is visible through the vent). It the information you want on that tag? I can get it off the shelf and get the info.

I haven't put it on a scale, so this is strictly a "feels about the same". The transformer looks like it uses copper wire. (IDK, maybe it's copper plated). The highest output i can get is 230V with it.

As for the GS. It passes my "practical application" requirements with flying colours.