powerjack power inverter 26,000 watt AMG version 48 volt PSW LF 13,000 watt continuous at 240 volts or 120 volts etc.

Correct.  Seems he's not doing PJ repairs anymore...never been officially informed, just nothing coming in.

No.  GS fans are custom-manufactured just for us.  Almost certainly cost a lot more than the fans PJ uses.

There are 2 hall sensors inside the ss case but i did not exactly see what wires they are monitoring on the 48-volt 26,000 watt PowerJack PSW SP LF AMG version inverter. there are no external meters so all will have to be measured another way... 

i will mount it with large shunts and small meters in the battery cables to measure the solar panel production and the inverter loads as i have installed on the other LifePO4 batteries...

while studying/observing the pieces and parts and noted that the 2 hall sensor version was a likely upgrade or possible improvement/change via the PowerJack manufacturer...

it is set up for the plug-in "Thors Notebook"; kind of like the 3 box ss 15,000 watt one i have running on the 32 cell 4p8s LiFePO4 battery.(but that inverter is a 24-volt inverter).

Thors Notebook would be a LCD monitoring screen  or dual LCD screens that could be purchased separately but may be of minimal value; in all reality; just an accessory gimmick that would cost another 100 bucks, that is not required.

just a side note of the 2 hall sensors for now...

perhaps one hall sensor monitors one leg and the other hall sensor monitors the other leg of the split phase out put???

take care all. thanks 😎

Yes, there are 2 hall sensors...but neither connect to the CPU, and thus neither are providing any sort of power limit.

From one of the photos you provided:

I green-circled the transformer that provides the ONLY amperage feedback to the CPU.

Both hall sensors circled in red are ONLY for the "Thor's Notebook" display.  They do not connect to the CPU in any way.

One's usually on L1, and the other usually on N.  In that config, they can't get a full picture of the inverter's actual load output in a split-phase scenario--as L2 still isn't monitored.  These sensors have been in use like this ever since the "dual LCD big box inverters" were first made...so not anything new.

yes, I admit what you say,,,,it really sounds bad, real real bad, all the things you say about the PowerJack AMG version inverters. 

the choke they show it only hooked up on the 120 volt ac output and you doubt that will have any effect, but yet they have the prominent warning label to use a choke on the outside??? of the new PowerJack AMG style inverters, when used with heavy loads...

so each PowerJack AMG inverter has an increasingly larger transformer it appears on what ever amount of wire they can put on what ever size core they can fit in it. weather it be a 6000, 8000, (12,000, 16,000 20,000, or 26,000 watt inverter....these are the 48 volt ones they are selling) and you say it is just that they change the wiring on the outside for 120 or 240 depending on how it is jumpered. hmmm. 

and the iron core or the terroidal core of some unknown proprietary mixture has no direct relation to the amount of enamel coated aluminum wire their terroid core has on it. so still a mystery??? as no one knows what the core is made of or how much wire is on it... just what ever they happen to put into it????

they all seem to have a 56-60 watt standby use, but I never have them idling anyways always; a small load of some sort on them 24/7.... wasting a lot of solar energy... if the inverter is on it is running something....

i have 3 lf inverters running and a forth one running part time with the only issue encountered was I ran the battery low and the warning light and audible sound came on. i charged the battery up and it is back to running 24/7.

no heavy load testing on any of them yet...

at present your estimate is a 26,000 one will only do 7500 watts....even thought they have a 13000 watt continuous output advertised. they do have the choke label disclaimer requirement for heavy loads which is a new twist???

that seems awefully pitiful vs the 12000 watt one the guy just demonstrated on the YouTube video that showed it shutting down at 6000 watts but seemed to run good at 4500 and 5000 watts.... and he only paid 300 bucks for it...

if I can only get your estimated 7500 watts out of the new PowerJack 26,000 watt AMG LF SP PSW version bought for $527 dollars(including shipping and tax),,,,hmmmm....😢

burst my bubble!!!!🤔

the inverter is the weak link for sure....

I hope they do a lot better than what you predict.... 😎

my pizza oven is almost done and new chimney for the other cooktop,,, outside wood burning kitchen may be more dependable...😊

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i do appreciate the information on the small circled transformer giving the feedback to the cpu... lots of electronic stuff in there.

so the 2 hall sensors have no functional improvement for my application at this time...bummer ... ok...

the other thing i noted was it looked like a brass bar between the dc posts inside vs a tin plated copper more conductive busbar inside. i only connect the LiFePO4 battery to one positive and one negative external dc post using 4/0 copper battery cables and tape the unused one off...

is there any real purpose for the 2 positives and 2 negative dc posts???

would replacing the brass interior bus bar be worthwhile... i have some extra copper ones but they are not plated...

thanks,

PJ's reputation is to advertise power levels that the inverter can't do.  U-Power comes along and rebrands those inverters with a double label--so I've had to tell several people that their "15,000W U-Power" is really a rebranded "8,000W PJ", which is only good for 2-3kw continuous in the first place.

If you could count the strands of wire used on the transformer windings, I could estimate the approximate amount of power it would be able to provide at a continuous duty cycle (i.e. not intermittent).  High voltage side likely will be between 1-4 strands (figure ~3kw per strand if it's the 2.5mm wire).  But transformer heat is also caused by the low side winding--and depending how many strands they used, that will have a significant affect on the heat generation.  (For 48v, assume ~3kw continuous per 7 strands).

Those numbers are of course extremely rough "ballpark estimate" numbers, assuming 2.5mm wire strands...and a relatively high core voltage (not guaranteed).

I personally bought a "9,000W" PJ inverter several years back (which started the Genetry inverter journey).  That transformer went past 180 degrees Fahrenheit (80C) at 3kw loads.

Iron core doesn't matter so much as the amount of wire on it--and there is no specification for how much wire per a particular size.  I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if 3 "identical 26,000W AMG" inverters each had different amounts of wire on the transformer.

What the size of the iron core (ASLxx spec) DOES indicate is the MAXIMUM amount of wire that can be used--putting a hard cap on the maximum possible continuous power.

Yeah.  But he did not run the load test for any significant length of time--in other words, the transformer temperature had not stabilized.  Seeing the 150F temps measured on the tranny after just a few minutes of 4-5kw loads tells me that it's pretty  much not going to be able to sustain even that power level continuously.

Probably not worth the bother.  If that brass bar gets really hot under load--then maybe.

is there any real purpose for the 2 positives and 2 negative dc posts???

I use one cable 4/0 for pos and one for neg .    pj  sell size 0  on ebay then need 2 pos cables  and 2 neg  cables .   

Thanks Dickson!

Another small detail is a bit more clear to me.

Most of my wiring has always been on the AC side of things. and then I was more like follow the directions of others, without knowing the fine details... so thanks for that tidbit! definitely not an electrician or an electrical engineer---just a diy displaced retired farm boy by heart trying to assemble a safe off-grid solar system ...piece by piece... thanks

kind of a jack of all trades... 

ok , if i am using 4/0 copper cables between my battery and the PowerJack 26,000 watt AMG LF PSW SP inverter then still no need for the second DC positive and negative connection. i can see where the smaller 0 AWG cables are used that doubling the cable would be beneficial as they do not have the current carrying capacity that a 4/0 cable does.

i have a hydraulic crimper and tinned copper lugs so i make all my larger cables. the 4/0 cable has never shown any heating problems that i am aware of...i should test it but i have not really checked its temperature so far (the cable temperature)

if it only puts out a continuous 13000 watts at 48volt that is = 13,000 divided by 48 is 270.83 amps...is this the correct line of thinking for the inverter cable sizing and their reason for the double positive and double negative dc posts???

that would make sense to me then...

I made up 6 foot test cables for the smaller inverter with 4/0 copper cable so a definite overkill for the small inverter but likely a fairly good choice in inverter cable AAWG size for the 26,000 PowerJack LF PSW SP AMG version inverter.

a 4/0 cable according to the table that the PowerJack reseller shows is good for 423 amps where as the 0 cable is rated at 211 amps. 🤔😎

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It seems they advertise at some short unattainable surge rating; but then they label right on the inverter a lot more clearly than in the past. just inflate their advertise numbers and you have to read it all closer...what they advertise is the surge rating to make them sound more capable....

exaggerations make them appear better.... my inverter in bigger than yours type of advertising....

so just divide that exaggerated number by 2 =

a 6000 watt one does 3000 watt continuous AMG version

 a 8000 wat one does 4000 watts continuous AMG version

the 12,000 one does up to 6000 but more likely 4500 to 5000 continuous AMG version($285 on eBay)

the 16,000 ??? AMG version

the 20,000??? AMG version

the 26,000??? AMG version

they also sell a 25000 watt and a 30000 watt monster....for more money

when I registered the new inverter on the web site I did not glean much more than a sales page although they do provide skype to Jack and Helen there. 

 I think I will email the Albee Gong (Contact person on the included PowerJack warranty card) and see where she may provide more information sometime in the future.... wonder how good her English Is??? 🤔

so if it will put out a max of 13000 watts AC or what then 13000 divide by 240 volts would be 54 amps or a 60 amp ac breaker or even if you went 1.56 x 54.166 = 84.498 amps max on the ac side for breaker sizing.

but they say maybe 90 percent efficiency so then 13000  times ,9 = would bring the max output to 11.700 watts; then 11,700 divide by 240 =48.75 amps;  take that times 1.56 = 76.05 amps so a 80 amp breaker on the ac output side of things... 

80 amp thhn house wire is???

google says 4 AWG thhn wire.... for the ac side connections into an 80 amp breaker ....

is my fuzzy math any good????

thanks for all your replies...

trying to be safe!!

On 1/21/2022 at 10:26 AM, dochubert said:

Can't argue with a $527 inverter that will do 6500w.  Assuming it will actually do the 6500w (still to be proven).

All things considered,  if I were going to buy an inverter today, it would likely be a GS 6kw.  Two of them if I needed more than 6kw, would still be cheaper than the proposed price for the 12kw (downside being having to run two inverters).  

A 12kw Growatt lf sp inverter is about $2200 plus shipping and is a little better than buying a powerjack because what you get should be consistent (powerjack is Never  consistent).  Design is not really better than powerjack and the transformer(s) are not toroidal so larger no load.  Repairing a blown Growatt will cost about $300 for a replacement board set.

I have a twin coming in about 30 more days so then i would have one PowerJack 26,000 LF SP PSW AMG version inverter for $527.73 and a duplicate PowerJack 26,000 LF SP PSW AMG version inverter for $599.61 to run on 2 separate main breaker panels as I can't parallel them. so then I would have somewhere in the neighborhood of 7500watts plus 7500watts or 15,000 watt from 2 of them....if I ever need that much power at one time....not likely!

$1127.34 for a matched pair with 15,000watt output potential or more...??? 

no wifi boards, no lcd screens, the old KISS principal. less stuff to break down...

I never look at the "Thors Notebook" LCD screens on the 15,000 watt PowerJack 3 ss boxes inverter. I took the extra time to mount the "Thors Notebook" dual LCD screen at eye level, but rarely even look at it.

I monitor the 32 cell LiFePOP4 battery and loads vis the SBMS0 screens, but still only occasionally look at those. the 32 cell LiFePO4 battery is made up of 272Ah Lishen cells in a 4P8S configuration. so>>> 3.2x 272x 32 = 27,852.8Wh potential capacity of that LiFePO4 DIY build. it has a 272 ah x 4 = 1088 amp potential because it is connect in parallel 1st.

but a .25 C rate charge would be (1088A x .25C) = 272 Amps could be input to the battery via the solar panels and still be a low charge rate for the solar battery( .25C ). All is off-grid...all battery charging is done by the PV solar panels... every 2 solar panels put about 16 or so amps in sunny weather. then it would take 272 divide by 16 = 17 pair of panels or 34 solar panel to fast charge the battery at .25C rate....

17 pairs of 250 watt 60 cell solar PV panels would be an 8500 watt solar array...

fuzzy math again???

34 250 watt 60 cell panels mounted presently.... the fierce winds and winter slowed me down... i hate the cold....

I have 80 250 watt panels and 40 327 watt solar panels.. the slow part in mounting the solar panels to withstand the fierce winds...

the end game intent is to utilize the excess solar PV electric to heat water and heat the house in the winter time... off-grid... 

I have an artesian well and pond to play with also...at this off-grid homestead....no well pump needed for the artesian well ,,,the artesian well runs 24/7 all by itself. good for fresh water for the livestock that never freezes over completely...

🤔😎

lambing season is upon me, the chicken water system needs improvements, but the rubber hog pan has functioned ok for the moment....

80 amp thhn house wire is???

google says 4 AWG thhn wire.... for the ac side connections into an 80 amp breaker ....

Yes a 4 AWG wire for 80 amp breaker .   NO because a ASL5.0 transformer  will do 7500 watts  for a short time  according to test done by Sean .     I use 6 AWG  for an 50 amp breaker  as  no PJ  inverter  will do  more than 6000 watts continuous with the  rev 11.3 control board at  this time in any  review  .    The rev 11.3 control board  will not allow any transformer to do  what  the max  the transformer can do  but shut down way too soon .   IF  your  26000 AMG  can do  7000 watt continuous then  4 AWG  and  80 amp breaker  to be safe .   

I have an artesian well and pond to play with also...at this off-grid homestead....no well pump needed for the artesian well ,,,the artesian well runs 24/7 all by itself. good for fresh water for the livestock that never freezes

You are lucky to have an artesian well  .    The other artesian well  is when I visit  the king palace in St Petersberg  Russia  that is still being use for several  hundred years .   

52 minutes ago, dickson said:

IF  your  26000 AMG  can do  7000 watt continuous then  4 AWG  and  80 amp breaker  to be safe.

Just a comment because people generally don't think of this aspect of things.  Master breakers (excluding those with integrated RCD etc) will usually not be capable of tripping when used with an inverter.  Take a look at the trip curve of the breaker vs the capabilities of the inverter.  Pretty much no one is going to buy an inverter capable of X amps and then place a breaker with sufficiently low ratings to allow it to magnetically trip, let alone thermally, on the AC output because everyone wants to make full use of the inverter's capabilities so everything in the master circuit should be rated to cope with that indefinitely.  In this case it's all about the breaker being able to safely carry and make/break full current if manually operated rather than protecting wiring.

Things are different with grid / mains supply where the network can supply massively more current than the premises wiring etc can handle.

Pretty much no one is going to buy an inverter capable of X amps and then place a breaker with sufficiently low ratings to allow it to magnetically trip, let alone thermally, on the AC output because everyone wants to make full use of the inverter's capabilities so everything in the master circuit should be rated to cope with that indefinitely

That is true if  the  PJ  can do more than   6000 watt on one 120vac leg   then use  4 AWG  wires .   NO  PJ  can do  more then 6000 watts so far  continuously on  one leg and that is 12000 watts on two leg 240vac .   The  30kw PJ  and the 25kw PJ 3 box  inverter can not  do more than  6000 watts on one 120vac leg .    I use 6 AWG  wires  even on the new  GS 12kw  because I know I  will not use more than 8000 watts load  on two leg 240vac .    

It's impossible to make a blanket statement--the ASLxx number SHOULD specify the dimensions of the iron core.  Has nothing to do with the actual amount of wire on it--which is the real limitation.