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400v DC is too dangerous to build a DIY powerwall .
I definitely agree with you there.
The 120-odd volts from my first solar panel array will easily hold a DC arc over 1/2". At 400v, I don't even want to know how far of an arc that will hold.
AC arcs are a much shorter distance and break easier because the voltage reaches 0v every 120x/sec (for 60Hz). Case in point is that most generic breakers are rated for 280vAC--and 32vDC. If you put 280vDC on a 280vAC rated breaker, the DC arc is going to start a fire.
Watch this video for a very obvious example of the difference:
And even properly rated DC breakers if installed incorrectly are literal fire hazards in high voltage DC cases:
Yes, I agree, high voltage systems are more efficient. Yes, more efficient at converting power. But also a LOT more efficient at starting fires if something goes wrong. YMMV.
Yes, I agree, high voltage systems are more efficient. Yes, more efficient at converting power. But also a LOT more efficient at starting fires if something goes wrong.
Only way I use 400 vDC powerwall battery is not DIY but NO Tesla dealer is going to do it for any DIY inverter or solar panels for liability problem . I blow up so many fuses that now I can smell and hear an arc . I sometimes spend a hour checking for loose connections . My house is one of few houses built in the 80's when aluminum wires is legal but not legal now . The wires expand and come loose so I use split nut on some connections .
yes, he shows a 240 plus volt mppt that can control 26000 watts of solar panels. not the make sky blue/mr power cheap small mppt variety...did not see him tell the price of the high voltage mppt he used...
sounds like he had an electrician help... with the sandi high voltage inverter..
$7500 dollars delivered price for a 450 pound 25000 watt copper wound high voltage inverter in split phase capable of 240 to 400 volts dc input is above my comfort zone for sure but very interesting...
I think the same company he was showing they also make pre-built plug and play high voltage LiFePO4 34kW batteries,,, for big money of course...that can also be combined for more power..
I have arced a 24 volt 544Ah battery and that is plenty scary and demands a lot more respect and safety...
the storage battery expense will be similar either way with LiFePO4 but cheaper if you assemble it your self...
the savings will be in less wire and less mppt controllers,
the switches would have to be better quality also....
Ibelieve the car batteries are running high voltage I was watching where they are going from 400 to 800 volts but may use a step up converter or something...never really looked at that any deeper...
he was basically using a 240 volt dc battery and outputting 240 volt split phase ac power via the high voltage inverter,,,, forget how high the mppt was but like 280 volts down to 245 volt to charge his battery...
high voltage inverter system is very interesting but not in the budget or comfort zone now.....
building fence is priority and more farm equipment, etc...taking priority...scored some more used $5 hog panels this morning....hair sheep lambs are always looking at the grass is greener on the other side of a old fence...
hi ho hi ho off to work I go...😎😎😎
I think the same company he was showing they also make pre-built plug and play high voltage LiFePO4 34kW batteries,,, for big money of course...that can also be combined for more power..
I have arced a 24 volt 544Ah battery and that is plenty scary and demands a lot more respect and safety..
My 64 v BMW battery arced when the connection is loose and the insulation burn and a buzzed noise like in the youtube that Sid show . The fire from the insulation continue after shutting off the inverter which is scary . Lucky the wire is far from the battery and the fire did not get to the battery . Battery for 400 vDC system must be pre-built if I also connect the solar panel in series for 400 vDC . IF the connection for the solar panel is loose then the arcing and fire will burn the roof . Six BMW battery in series will give 400 vDC . Too dangerous as I have no way to keep the BMW under 400 degree F where most electric car has water for cooling and sensor for thermal runaway . A Sandi high voltage system custom and pre-built by Sandi like a Tesla system install by the dealer will have less liability problem .
i was watching a video of tesla powerwall and it has liquid cooling system... but very expensive...
the LiFePO4 is safer than li ion battery but still high voltage....LiFePO4 you could still DIY this....very carefully....
his high voltage 240 volt MPPT was $1300 shipped but it would/could control 26000 watts of solar PV panels...from a different company
and he used 72 of the LiFePO4 cells in series to get over 240 volts DC storage battery..... 3.2 x 72 = 230.4 volts but they normally run closer to 3.4 volts in the main flat part of the LiFePO4 curve so 3.4 x 72 cells = 244.8 volts.
the 450 pound high voltage 240 to 400 volt split phase inverter Sandi brand .... yes the same Sandi company can also sell prebuilt 240 volt LiFePO4 battery in the 240 volt variety that would make it more plug and play,,,, i think he even said they can make them with the batter and inverter in the same unit,,,, but two separate units would be better in my mind....
yes, all high voltage would be best in a room designed for it.... best outside the house anyways...cover the walls with fire retardant cement board,,,,and a cement floor with insulation under it and in the walls.... looks like he repurposed a steel shipping container...
i was watching a video of tesla powerwall and it has liquid cooling system... but very expensive...
But we're still talking $30,000 of equipment.
Inverter + MPPT alone are just under $10,000--and that's a LOT of equivalent PJs and MSBs (which is where this thread started). Significantly more than I've spent for my entire system.
As always, you get what you pay for.
On 6/16/2022 at 8:18 AM, dickson said:i have some hope for the 26000 watt AMG PowerJack LF PSW SP 48-volt inverters to function still..
I have no hope for any of the AMG inverter . It won't start a 240V 1/2 hp pump, but I haven't given up. It also initially wouldn't start a 115V 750W refrigerator, but I discovered a trick, and now it starts and runs it fine. I'll do the best with it that I can . Yes I know that there are ways to help the AMG to atart inductive load by doing what you did . That what I like about PJ inverter is tinkering an see what happen . I will do more tinkering but not now as I do not trust PJ parts .
The LiFePO4 cells would cost hugely ($20,000?) depending on the AH. My little 24V 100AH battery was cheap at $700.
Inverter + MPPT alone are just under $10,000--and that's a LOT of equivalent PJs and MSBs (which is where this thread started). Significantly more than I've spent for my entire system.
The LiFePO4 cells would cost hugely ($20,000?) depending on the AH. My little 24V 100AH battery was cheap at $700.
and he used 72 of the LiFePO4 cells in series to get over 240 volts DC storage battery..
Too dangerous for me to connect 72 battery is series . I can not even get 4 battery in series tight and not cause arcing like in the video . 72 battery that tight to each other and one loose connection and arcing will blow up all of them . IF I connect six BMW battery that close together in series to get 400 vDC and one started arcing at the battery terminal instead of at the wire far away then I will have a major explosion that will be almost impossible to put out like another video in this forum . DIY battery is too dangerous to get 400 vDC .
PowerJack 30k LF PSW SP Inverters never arrived and nothing was received other than the flat cardboard envelop with a piece of paper,,, ands still no replies from Powerjack-Jack or the eBay pawn seller Rayjunglepower so still searching the alternatives......
yes, i agree the high voltage would be more dangerous...
every PowerJack ,,,, according to Sid is only good for 5000 to 7000 watts continuous and they can not be put in parallel so not a whole house type of inverter... unless it is a tiny tiny hermit house with a 3000 watt demand....
but I suspect that the 20000 watt (not sure what ASL transformer is in it); powerjack or 15000 watt powerjack which has 6.5ASL transformer could do bettter.....but never maxed them out...
yes, I agree, $7500 for a 240 volt 25000 watt PSW SP LW UL approved inverter with copper windings that weighs 450 pounds is a lot of money...
i think you would have to add in the MPPT to compare as a lot of the cheap make sky blue / mr power mppt clone would be required to do 26000 watts at 48 volts.... correct ???? how many????
the outback flex max 80 solar charge controllers (4 of those will not do 26000 watts at 48 volt... and cost $2200 dollars vs one large high voltage UL approved MPPT that will do 26000 watts for $1300 dollars... would need an electrician to do safely....
LiFePO4 is a lot safer battery technology than Li Ion battery,,,,, but high voltage DC would be very dangerous....
the investment in the backup/storage battery would be the same cost so that is kind of a non-issue....the advantage is you could pull a lot lower amperage at high voltage and smaller wires and less inverters and less system equipment to hook up...and less wasted heat....
each PowerJack LF PSW SP inverter put out a fair amount of waste heat that I need to counter in the summer...
25000 watts divided by 240 volts = 104.267 amp draw from the LiFEPO4 battery
vs 25000 watts divided by 48 volts = 520 amp draw from the LiFePO4 battery...
vs 12000 watts divided by 48 volts = 250 amp draw from the LiFePO4 battery...
if the 12000 watt LF inverter is optimistically 90 percent efficient than it would require more amps to get 12000 watts >>> maybe 280 amps or more (did not calculate it exactly) and it would require more than 2 of the LF 48-volt inverters to get the approximately same 25000 watts so you would be pulling close to 560 amps out of the battery using the 48-volt inverters vs 104 amps with the one 240-volt high voltage inverter...
to run 24/7 still takes a bigger battery for night-time use or anytime the sun is not helping out....to be off-grid....
more amps means more heat losses....
still interesting, the high voltage inverter vs the non UL outlaw inverters at 48-volts...that can not be connected to the grid.... I am strictly off-grid so I can be a bit creative....for the moment....
more fencing as 3 lambs seem to find a place to escape to eat the green grass in my yard, but a bit of a problem to check for them....🤔🤔🤔
so more fencing to improve upon for father's day...heat wave out there,,,,,🤔🤔🤔😎😎😎
more fencing as 3 lambs seem to find a place to escape to eat the green grass in my yard, but a bit of a problem to check for them....🤔🤔🤔
so more fencing to improve upon for father's day...heat wave out there,,,,
Sean has the same problem with his GOAT on one of the youtube video so he can not be working on the GS inverter .
every PowerJack ,,,, according to Sid is only good for 5000 to 7000 watts continuous and they can not be put in parallel so not a whole house type of inverter... unless it is a tiny tiny hermit house with a 3000 watt demand.
I cut the load demand to 3000 watt and run off-grid 24/7 many times . NO heat pump mean going to the library or walmart to cool off for hours .
Jack Rickard of evtv motor werks had a high voltage 30kw Sandi inverter with tesla car batteries and he predicted the 12kw type 48 volt would not be around in 5 years because the voltage was too low and the amp draw was not practical for a whole house inverter...
this was August 2020 video....
of the Sandi high voltage inverter using 300 to 400 volts vs a Sigineer 48 volt inverter....
very interesting ... just stumbled upon it on YouTube and why ????? hmmm
more fencing as 3 lambs seem to find a place to escape to eat the green grass in my yard, but a bit of a problem to check for them....🤔🤔🤔
yes, I am improving a fence that has been installed likely 30-40 years ago.... the hair sheep even a 3 week old ram lamb can jump a 30 inch hog panel... it is amazing... they go along the fence line and look for the weak spot.... the lambs with a mother stay with their mother but the rejected extra bottle lambs are like a gang and the other sheep never seem to accept them.... so they are the escapees.... i will electrify it later, but just re-enforcing it and making it taller at the moment...
I installed a railroad and cattle panel corral there about 22 or more years ago and it is still critter proof but the older existing fence is what takes time...
no Sean is likely working on fence.... I used to stake the bottle calves out until the electric fence was done but you have to keep checking them as thy get tangled up......i put in about 160 feet of improved fence but need more...the last couple days by myself....
I have never wasted time to cement in a post>>>>that is city boy farm mentality🤣🤣🤣
we built hog fence in frozen ground when I was about 12 years old... just pack the wood posts and install corner braces...no cement in a post hole ever...😎
The LiFePO4 cells would cost hugely ($20,000?) depending on the AH. My little 24V 100AH battery was cheap at $700.
i have about 28kw x3 or about 84kw of lifepo4 plus another 40 kw... (approximate)
the 84 kw was about $11000 dollars... rough estimate the other 40 kw lifepo4 was about $5600 dollars.....so yes the battery is the expensive part.... for a whole house off-grid system....
very interesting ... just stumbled upon it on YouTube Wish he show how to connect the TESLA model 3 battery safely to the Sandi high voltage inverter using 300 to 400 volts before chain smoking and lung cancer got him . He has over 500 youtube videos and some are 3 hours long .