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the previous PowerJack non-AMG versions in 6k 8k and 15k and 20k did not have any such warning of the external choke/inductor required for starting heavy loads... hmmm
I still think Genetry Solar could have a large market audience to supply replacement setups to cure the PowerJack woes...
NOT possible for GS to supply setup to cure PJ woes . The AMG transformer winding and spec is different from the non-AMG version transformer . PJ do not understand split-phase and the windings is like for one 120vac and one 240vac to make split-phase which would require GS to replace the PJ transformer with a GS transformer which has different winding and spec for wire size . GS can sell you a whole inverter for less than it cost to just replace the PJ poor design transformer with a GS transformer and the PJ mainboard has to go .
On 6/16/2022 at 10:33 AM, pilgrimvalley said:I still think Genetry Solar could have a large market audience to supply replacement setups to cure the PowerJack woes...
Yeah, it's called a Genetry Solar inverter.
Been over this before several times.....having actually started out trying to improve PJ inverters. But after running into problem after problem down the road of improvements, I have had to conclude that there is nothing in a PJ inverter that can be used to make a better inverter. Just simply nothing.
Wish he show how to connect the TESLA model 3 battery safely to the Sandi high voltage inverter using 300 to 400 volts before chain smoking and lung cancer got him . He has over 500 youtube videos and some are 3 hours long .
yes, he is very long winded in his youtube videos... that is for sure....i think he was definitely on the right track with high voltage sandi inverters with a cooler low amp draw for whole house or shop usage...
definitely a eye opener...
yes i also wish he had more information...
5 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:Yeah, it's called a Genetry Solar inverter.
Been over this before several times.....having actually started out trying to improve PJ inverters. But after running into problem after problem down the road of improvements, I have had to conclude that there is nothing in a PJ inverter that can be used to make a better inverter. Just simply nothing.
yes how many amps draw to put out 12000 watts continuously do you calculate with the gs 12k inverter????
will you be able to put 2 of the 12000 watt gs inverters together to get 24000 watts ???
how much heat will the 12k generate at 12000 watts...???
getting rid of waste heat is a big part of the problem....
Sean said the fan filters idea was a dud.... I figured that early on (before he scrapped the idea) as the fan and air is the only thing cooling the components...
and the excess heat that the inverters emit only add to the room ambient temperature,,,, so need to air-condition the inverters for peak performance....
the fan filters just like in computers block the amount of air flow...
he needs to filter the air and cool the room... 3 or 4 of the 12k inverters and multiple little cheapo chinese mppts will generate a lot of electrical waste heat in any room...
my three 24/7 powerjack inverters almost heat the off-grid solar powershed without any external heat in the winter..
almost....
getting rid of the waste heat is the problem now....
Sean said the fan filters idea was a dud.... I figured that early on (before he scrapped the idea) as the fan and air is the only thing cooling the components..
I like what Sean say in his chat . In this same chat I do not think I am a hermit for using 3000 watt to run a PJ off-grid 24/7 .
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In this same chat I do not think I am a hermit for using 3000 watt to run a PJ off-grid 24/7 .
yes, you are working with an inverter that will not run your big AC unit in the heat....not a hermit just need a better bigger inverter and a bigger battery..... i was definitely not referring to you as a hermit my friend!!!!!!
so you will eventually be able to have more electrical comforts off the grid....
the inventor chooses to have a small system,,,,likely a budget problem....Sean will have to pay him more.... or they will have to start selling ... already proven UL clones...to gain market share and make the big bucks.....😎
if they raise hair sheep then they will have meat to feed the seven children and some to sell...maybe barter with the neighbors??? ,,,,lots better than goat meat....
found where the hair sheep were bottle lambs were going under the fence...today.... will be cutting down trees tomorrow and bought a mozall mower to recondition to clean up the fence lines...for 15 bucks from the neighbor....traded him an old battery for 20 bucks to get more hog panels and a stock tank for water....
I like to find bargains....
me>>>> I like to use and waste lots of electric off grid....bought some dc pumps to irrigate from the pond which is fed by the artesian well......now,,,>>>> if I could harness the artesian well more that would be a system upgrade...🤔🤔😎
6 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:yes how many amps draw to put out 12000 watts continuously do you calculate with the gs 12k inverter????
Depends how you calculate amps, and what your battery voltage. Difference is calculating an average current vs. a peak current--and who knows which a DC ammeter will do. I'm suspecting that the common phenomenon of "DC breakers tripping too soon" on inverter loads has to do with the very sine-shaped current waveform. The breakers are tripping on the peaks, not the averages.
Efficiency should be closer to 92% (or higher), so estimating 92% @ 55v battery voltage = 237A.
6 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:will you be able to put 2 of the 12000 watt gs inverters together to get 24000 watts ???
Eventually. I can only do one thing at a time, and right now it's design...not code.
6 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:how much heat will the 12k generate at 12000 watts...???
The remainder of the efficiency. So if it's 92% efficient, that's 8% loss. Thusly, 12000 / 0.92 = 13043W input power * 0.08 = 1,043W of heat.
battery capacity should be quoted in kWh take the amp hour x volts so 280 ah x 48 volts = 13440 watts or 13.44 kWh (( in LiFePO4 cells that would be 16 280 Ah cells which cost about $150X16=$2400 dollars plus BMS etc)).... the 13.44 kWh battery will run the 12000 watt inverter for approximately 1 hour........during the time of no sun or at nigh or a cloudy day... real life would need at least 10 to 20 times that battery to run any significant time without sun....to run a 12k inverter...... the math gets scary expensive???? but get 26 percent federal tax credit this year in the USA if you hurry.....
the 13.44 kWh battery will run the 12000 watt inverter for approximately 1 hour........during the time of no sun or at night or a cloudy day... real life would need at least 10 to 20 times that battery to run any significant time without sun....to run a 12k inverter...... the math gets scary expensive??
I been watching Sean youtube chat today and he mumbo something like 30000 dollars of battery to run a 12000 kw GS and he plan to add I think 3 more GS 12 kw ? NO way I will build that many DIY battery . Building DIY battery is the most scary job . IT took the freight company 8 days to find a driver to do home delivery when I complain why take so long .
16 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:So if it's 92% efficient, that's 8% loss. Thusly, 12000 / 0.92 = 13043W input power * 0.08 = 1,043W of heat.
do you have anyway to accurately measure the efficiency of a 12k inverter???
most LF inverters are around 90 percent efficient. two 12K inverters would waste over 2000 watts in heat......
Yes, over 1000 watts of waste heat... BUT that's at balls-to-the-wall full throttle. How long do you actually plan to have the inverter pegged at max? The advantage, in my mind, of a 12 kW inverter is that it can supply a large peak current to start a heavy load. If you have a sustained 12 kW draw for hours on end, you're doing this off grid thing all wrong.
Yes, over 1000 watts of waste heat... BUT that's at balls-to-the-wall full throttle. How long do you actually plan to have the inverter pegged at max?
Sean has a chat about fan filter and heat . He is disturbed that at 60 degree F the GS 12 kw can run 14000 watt but only 12000 watt at 70 degree F and then he mumbo 10000 watt at 80 degree F. The heat from the transformer itself is a huge problem now that someone did the math . Three years ago I notice that my 15 kw PJ can do 6500 watt at 60 degree F and 5000 watts at 80 degree F and 4000 watts at 100 degree F even with 7 delta fans so I know it is the design of the PJ transformer and nothing I can do . Yesterday the temperature is 110 degree F and the max load is 3000 watts . Sandi inverter web site is the first I seen where they actually do the load test at different ambient temperature . They say 70 degree F is the advertise rated load for a 20 kw inverter. The sandi load drop 10-20 percent for every 10 degree F incresae so now they run at 17 kw load at 80 degree F and maybe 12 kw at 100 degree F . NO need for Sean to test the GS 12 kw above 100 degree F .
do you have anyway to accurately measure the efficiency of a 12k inverter???
No. Or we would have done that already.
Like I just posted above, there's 2 ways of measuring DC current, and I have no idea which one is being used in the meters we have available.
most LF inverters are around 90 percent efficient. two 12K inverters would waste over 2000 watts in heat......
Sandi isn't far behind. They say ">94%"--so obviously, take the 94% rating. 25kw / 0.94 = 26,595W - 25,000W = 1,595W of heat.
We could easily reduce transformer losses in the GS 12kw if we used copper wire (and then it'd probably run well past 15-18kw before overheating). But nobody wants to pay for the significantly increased cost of both manufacturing and shipping.
Three years ago I notice that my 15 kw PJ can do 6500 watt at 60 degree F and 5000 watts at 80 degree F and 4000 watts at 100 degree F even with 7 delta fans so I know it is the design of the PJ transformer and nothing I can do .
I ohmed out a "20kw" PJ transformer, and did the math on it. Calculated losses at 20kw were 2,704W. The ASL9 core just doesn't have enough surface area to dissipate that much heat.
Surprisingly, however, the 20kw efficiency with 2,704W heat loss comes out to 88% (Aims, Sigineer, hello??!) This obviously doesn't take into account any of the switching loss from the very poorly driven FETs, wiring, etc.
If I use the same metric, the current GS 12kw prototype transformer is 95.2% efficient, with a calculated DC resistance loss of 960W. (First prototype that overheated early was 91.6% efficient.) DC losses in the FETs should be close to 40W (not including switching losses) at full 12kw load--so the transformer is well over 90% of the loss.
Thing is, simple mathematics always end up overlooking some part of reality. And that's why we don't know exact efficiency numbers. Not to mention the temperature coefficient of metal--where the hotter it is, the more resistance it has. And not just a little, either.
Just before someone says (like they already have!), "just go to 96v, and your losses will be so much lower"....no, they won't. Transformer losses will remain exactly the same. FET losses will stay about the same--as I will have to use higher voltage FETs. Those will come with a higher resistance (= more losses), which will be somewhat counteracted by the reduced current--but definitely no "Holy Grail" reduction.