PowerJack 30000Watt 48volt LF SP PSW 2 box inverter 2021 model 189 pounds

what is the core voltage on the 48 volt inverter's transformer? 

lifepo4 16s = 3.2 x26=51.2 nominal at 3.2 volts but mine run closer to 3.4 volts per cell most of the time.... so 3.4 x16 = 54.4 volts

the inverter circuit outputs around 54 volt via the pwm conversion from dc battery input to ac output then???? or what?

the transformer then steps up the pwm converted AC voltage to 240 volts ac??? and has a center tap to get the split phase 120/240  AC output....

possibly the higher quality more expensive core requires less wire & windings to get the same output??? but you still need to do the testing to verify if this is the case....

as the transformer core is a fixed step-up AC output....once it is assembled

are you saying the DC voltage input is also regulated to only output a certain set voltage via the pwm conversion to AC in the inverter circuit?  and it does not matter if the dc input voltage is 50 volts or 54.4 volts (still using the LiFePO4 as my example question)...

again excuse the greenhorn question and thanks in advance 🤔😎

a larger battery bank would maintain a more even battery voltage output to the inverter with the proper amount of solar pv panels....

trying to understand it....

mutitasking side note>>>pictures below: the new arc windows handmade in Bolivia were installed Saturday June 26th 2022... this is the front room where the waterwheel drive line will power the machines in the Molino (mill house) someday....

Have a great Friday and forth of July celebration weekend!!!!😎

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i saw the 30K Sandi high voltage LF Split Phase inverter was $8500 dollars and has copper transformer and weigh about 600 pounds or more...(not sure on the weight) .... i ususally put all the heave stuff on wheels anymore.....

Yesterday evening I scored five 4-drawer file cabinets (3 with keys for free) more tool storage for the shop to keep the rodents out and dust away...the price was free....my time and pickup truck and a 2 wheel hand truck to move and load.... yea ha!

i saw the 30K Sandi high voltage LF Split Phase inverter was $8500 dollars

Mike G  lateat video  say  one 30kw and  pre-built  450 v LiFEpO4  should be the way  to go  instead of DIY mess up  3  separate  10 kw inverters  which will cost 9000 dollars   and damger of  miss wired battery and fire .    

2 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

what is the core voltage on the 48 volt inverter's transformer?

Depends on the engineered design.  I've seen 48vDC inverter transformer primary specifications from 28vAC to 36vAC. 

The SPWM drive from the FETs is "throttled" via firmware to maintain this desired AC voltage on the transformer primary (increasing it as needed due to losses in the transformer under higher loads).  The ferrites on the transformer primary serve to "filter" the SPWM down to something much more resembling actual AC--meaning that the transformer is just a step-up device.

2 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

are you saying the DC voltage input is also regulated to only output a certain set voltage via the pwm conversion to AC in the inverter circuit?  and it does not matter if the dc input voltage is 50 volts or 54.4 volts (still using the LiFePO4 as my example question)...

Yes.  The inverter throttle changes far more with changes to battery voltage than it does with loading (which you can very easily see on a GS inverter's Diagnostic page).

You only have issues with battery voltage if it's too low to maintain a pure sine wave.  28vAC * 1.414 (square root of 2) = 39.5vDC min, while 36vAC * 1.414 = ~51vDC min.  (Obviously, this is not including switching and resistive losses, which will push this minimum voltage higher.)

3 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

possibly the higher quality more expensive core requires less wire & windings to get the same output??? but you still need to do the testing to verify if this is the case....

Already have.  The 12kw GS inverter you see in all of Sean's videos uses this expensive core + fewer turns.  Passes the test.

What I don't know is whether we can use the standard core and push the voltage that high.  That will have to be tested later; if it DOES work, we can reduce costs slightly.

3 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Depends on the engineered design.  I've seen 48vDC inverter transformer primary specifications from 28vAC to 36vAC. 

The SPWM drive from the FETs is "throttled" via firmware to maintain this desired AC voltage on the transformer primary (increasing it as needed due to losses in the transformer under higher loads).  The ferrites on the transformer primary serve to "filter" the SPWM down to something much more resembling actual AC--meaning that the transformer is just a step-up device.

what does the SPWM stand for?  simulated pulse width modulation???

the GS transformer runs at what core voltage vs the core voltage of powerjack??? 

are you saying there is different core voltage for various powerjack inverters depending on the model or do they have a standard core voltage to their transformer...????  the transformer steps up the AC voltage from what voltage to what voltage?????

thanks in advance for your reply....😎

the choke or extra windings help to filter the AC input ((( aka ferrite rings))) on the step-up transformer primary??? kind of soften the input voltage a bit??

3 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:

Depends on the engineered design.  I've seen 48vDC inverter transformer primary specifications from 28vAC to 36vAC. 

so it is losing a lot of volts from say 54.2 volts from a LiFePO4 battery to get down to 28 to 36 volts.....going thru the inverter circuitry to change DC battery input voltage to AC out put voltage....????

volts are the potential force vs amps are the amount of electricity that actually flows thru the wires/components. the higher the amperage the more the heat, so larger thicker wire is needed with the lower voltage conversion or step-up transformer...🤔

thanks again😎

so it is losing a lot of volts from say 54.2 volts from a LiFePO4 battery to get down to 28 to 36 volts.....going thru the inverter circuitry to change DC battery input voltage to AC out put voltage..

I find it hard to answer  the above question .             The  48vDC inverter transformer primary specifications is  from 28vAC to 36vAC.     The  primary spec is fixed at 36 vac  or  fixed at  32vac  for PJ inverter .    The 54.2 v DC   is the voltage for the 36vac  transformer  to produce a sine wave  and  the low  for a sine wave is 52 v DC .    You only have issues with battery voltage if it's too low to maintain a pure sine wave.  28vAC * 1.414 (square root of 2) = 39.5vDC min  to still have  a sine wave  .       The battery measure in v DC  and the Transformer primary is fixed and measure in v AC .    The battery will  change  and that is how Sean  know the well pump is on  .      Sean after using the GS 12 kw know exactly what appliance just turn on by watching the battery v DC  .     

are you saying the DC voltage input is also regulated to only output a certain set voltage via the pwm conversion to AC in the inverter circuit?  and it does not matter if the dc input voltage is 50 volts or 54.4 volts (still using the LiFePO4 as my example question

IF the PJ inverter is a 36vac primary  then 50 volts DC  does matter  as you will no longer have a sine wave  .      You need  52 v DC  from your  LiFePO4 battery  to keep a sine wave output of 240 v AC .    So I  have my lithium-ion battery at  62 v DC   and then I can use it longer before it drop to 52 v DC and I lose the sine wave .    This formula works 100 percent of the time in testing the PJ  inverter 36vac primary .     

9 minutes ago, dickson said:

The battery will  change  and that is how Sean  know the well pump is on  .      Sean after using the GS 12 kw know exactly what appliance just turn on by watching the battery v DC

Nah, the way you know what's on and off is by looking at the inverter output load.

1 hour ago, pilgrimvalley said:

so it is losing a lot of volts from say 54.2 volts from a LiFePO4 battery to get down to 28 to 36 volts.....going thru the inverter circuitry to change DC battery input voltage to AC out put voltage....????

Not "losing" as much as "converting."  (A linear regulator "loses" power in heat, while a switching regulator "converts" power.)

Remember, there's a big difference between DC and RMS AC.  Yes, 120vDC and 120vAC will have the same effective power (wattage).

However, AC crosses 0v at (x) times per second (generally 50 or 60, although mil-spec stuff tends to run 400Hz, etc.)--and to keep the same effective power, the peak of a 120vAC wave is significantly more than 120v.  120v * 1.414 (square root of 2) = 169v peak voltage.

So in order for the inverter FETs to generate a 36v sine wave, it has to first have at least (36v * 1.414) = ~51v on the battery in order to reach the peak of the desired AC wave.  Failing this, you'll get a flat-topped AC wave.

1 hour ago, pilgrimvalley said:

what does the SPWM stand for?

Sinusoidal pulse width modulation.  Approximating the steps of a sine wave by means of multiple width-controlled pulses at a specific carrier frequency.  When appropriately filtered, you'll get a sine wave output result.

1 hour ago, pilgrimvalley said:

the GS transformer runs at what core voltage vs the core voltage of powerjack??? 

are you saying there is different core voltage for various powerjack inverters depending on the model or do they have a standard core voltage to their transformer...????  the transformer steps up the AC voltage from what voltage to what voltage?????

Like I already said above, the core voltage is determined by the size, material type, and desired operating frequency of the transformer core.  And like I said above, it's purely used to determine the required number of turns of wire necessary to get the desired voltages.  There isn't any magic rocket science here.

1 hour ago, pilgrimvalley said:

the choke or extra windings help to filter the AC input ((( aka ferrite rings))) on the step-up transformer primary??? kind of soften the input voltage a bit??

The choke/ferrites between the FETs and transformer serve to absorb the SPWM carrier frequency (again, dependent on the inverter implementation and design requirements; this can easily range from 10-30KHz or beyond.)  Such a high frequency will be shorted out by the main low-frequency transformer (= high no load current and poor efficiency); if it's filtered by a ferrite, the losses are significantly reduced.

4 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Like I already said above, the core voltage is determined by the size, material type, and desired operating frequency of the transformer core.  And like I said above, it's purely used to determine the required number of turns of wire necessary to get the desired voltages.  There isn't any magic rocket science here.

the core voltage of the gs inverter is?? vs the core voltage of the powerjack inverter??? still confusing to me a bit??? 

yes i somewhat understand the inverter circuit changes the LifePo4 battery DC input voltage to a quazi sinusoidal AC output voltage ( a simulated via the fast switching of the mosfets on and off at different length intervals to approximate a sine wave....definitely an interesting electrical change...)

so it takes a 36 volt in powerjack or 32 volt AC primary and steps it up to 240 volts....if a no loss would be about 7 more turns or so on the smaller diameter/gauge secondary windings (approximately) and they would be carrying less AC amps on the secondary windings while the primary windings have to be thicker as they are carrying more AC amps....

240/36= 6.666666; or 240/32= 7.5

a bigger transformer core allows more wire to bee wound upon it...and different compositions of the transformer core have differing abilities to aid the induced voltage between the primary and secondary windings....so a more efficient core composition means less wire windings..... i kind of get that part....

the step up transformers are the AC side of things in the inverter.....

the inverter conversion with the mosfets and such is the DC side of the inverter trying to approximate an AC sine wave to run through the transformer to step it back up to 240 volts AC...

as the transformer part of the inverter only works with AC current to step it up to the desired 240 volt AC...

23 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

So in order for the inverter FETs to generate a 36v sine wave, it has to first have at least (36v * 1.414) = ~51v on the battery in order to reach the peak of the desired AC wave.  Failing this, you'll get a flat-topped AC wave.

so it would be best to keep the battery voltage above 51 volts to aid the generation of the sine wave and with the right amount of filtering it will potentially more closely approximate a PSW (pure sine wave ) and not be a flat topped sine wave...

51/16= 3.1875 volts per cell in a LiFePO4 battery

that clears up more of the inverter/transformer understanding some...

thanks...👍😎

Doesn't matter.  Like I'll say for the third time...it's dependent on the transformer core material, physical dimensions, and desired spec frequency.

Between the GS6 and GS12, the transformer cores are of different material and considerably different dimensions.  It goes without saying that the transformer core voltages are considerably different.

There's no "magic to the core voltage."  It's simply a fact of reality that the transformer specifications have to be designed around.

Mike G used a 240 volt DC battery (LiFePO4) to 240 volt AC high voltage Sandi 25K inverter, the transformer of the heavy copper windings core in his split phase setup by Sandi.... not a torroidal type transformer core but more like h-type or some call it e-type with the many iron sheets of the core to lessen the eddy currents I think...

Mike G is trying to get some pre-built 240 volt LiFePO4 batteries via Sandi to add to his system in the future..

with ability to parallel more high voltage batteries together later......

it seems the advantage is less heat loss and less components with the higher voltage systems....is that not why they recommend 24 and 48 volt over the high amp 12 volt systems???

7 hours ago, dickson said:

Mike G  lateat video  say  one 30kw and  pre-built  450 v LiFEpO4  should be the way  to go  instead of DIY mess up  3  separate  10 kw inverters  which will cost 9000 dollars   and damger of  miss wired battery and fire .

i see where he (Mike G) was talking about the $6900 to $7500 12k solark and the 30k Sandi High voltage inverter was 8500 dollars...

So with a higher voltage system, you can take a loss of 5-6v on the battery side (switching, wiring, etc., etc.) without too much issue.  But at 12v, if you lose 5-6v, you've literally lost half of the voltage--and there's nowhere to go. 

You could say, 1200 amps, big deal, some electric cars can run there for a few seconds for that burst of acceleration, so it should be possible at 12v, right?
Well, if you look at the IGBT specs that can run 1200A, they'll easily drop 2.5v while doing so.  For a proper H-bridge, power has to flow through TWO power control units--so that's 5.0v of loss.  (Yes, that's a ton of watts--but that's also why they're usually water cooled, and often rated to dissipate over 4,000W of heat continuous.)  But wait a minute, 12v battery - 5v of loss = 7v left over for the transformer.  THIS is why 12v becomes quite impossible very quickly: voltage losses are severe when you don't have many volts to begin with.

Solark are quite expensive--and also they're HF inverters, not LF inverters.  Not an equal comparison.