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4/0 Welding Cable carries 310 Amps for 600 volt in-line applications and that is not going to work . Two 4/0 welding cables in parallel is needed to be safe from fire .
that might be why the powerjack had the four connections for the inverter to battery connections on their large inverters....
but the gs12k down sized them to one post for positive and one post for dc battery cable connections....
but the gs12k down sized them to one post for positive and one post for dc battery cable connections..
I think now that the GS12lw can not be set to shut down at 16kw continuous . The cable inside the inverter is 4/0 or 3 or more cables equal to 4/0 rated so the shut down is 13000 watts to be safe . One post mean one 4./0 cable per post . if two 4/0 cables were used then a 400 amp fuse would need to be installed on each 4/0 cable....to be code legal....or would the fuse be required to slightly smaller?? NO 400 amp fuse on each cable . IF 16KW then 370 amps need two 4/0 cable at 310 amps each but one 400 amp fuse . I say 4/0 cable but two 3/0 cables also work with one 400 A fuse . For 20kw shut down then two 4/0 cable and one 500 amp fuse .
very few places get into the NEC DC fuse or DC breaker requirements of inverter cables....need more study/research
ALT E chart explain their way of using BOTH fuse and circuit breaker to protect inverter and wire at the same time The 5500 inverter will use a 250A breaker to protect the inverter AND a 400A fuse to protect the 4/0 wire . For a 12kw inverter running 12000 watts continuous then a 400A breaker to protect the inverter and a 400A fuse to protect the one 4/0 wires IF 16kw continuous then one 400A fuse to protect the two parallel 4/0 wires . All PJ inverter has glass fuse (40A) or breaker 80A to protect their inverter and I use 400A fuse to protect each of my battery (a lot of fuses )
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but the again a non UL approved inverter will not likely pass an electrical inspection in most places in the USA...and may void your house insurance also???? better put it outside in a cement/steel fireproof enclosure...
The new PV code require UL listing for all grid-tie inverter and any inverter for city permit . I think Sean say PV permit may cost 1500 dollars to get permit approval and then another 1500 for inspection . Engineering 775 say the inspector do not know what to look so Engineering 775 turn on the system and that is ok and pass and probably the city make an easy 1500 dollars . Another youtube show the stupid homeowner admit he overcharged the lithium-ion battery in his living room on home security camera . The whole house burn down and insurance do not pay so he ask for donation on youtube . I think the insurance would pay if he did not show how stupid he was by overcharging the battery .
altE biggest DC breaker was only 250 amps so back to class t fuses. i have no dc breakers larger than 63 amps.
and only use the 400 amp class t fuses between the inverter and battery.
altE site says 400 amp dc fuse for 185 amp draw using a 5500 watt 48 volt inverter with 4/0 copper inverter cables
The 400 amps dc fuse is to protect the 4/0 cable . you can use a smaller DC rated fuse/ DC rated breaker but then they may blow sooner to protect the 4/0 wire at less than 310 amps . NO the 250A breaker is not to protect the 4/0 wire at less than 310 amps but it is use to protect the inverter and then can be reset again like if you drop a long wrench between the 2 inverter posts and short circuit . if it (the inverter) shuts down at 12000 watts then 12000 divided by 53 volts is only 226 amps so the breaker will not trip right away . That is ALT E way to protect inverter and wires .
my concern was inadequately sized copper cable and overcurrent protective device (fusing or breakers) between the inverter and battery if the inverter was allowed to pull 18000 to 20000 watts from the battery...
altE table was for a 5500 watt inverter....so a lot smaller amp draw from a 48 volt battery...
Sean showed some breakers in a previous video but they were not actually hooked up....
most insurance companies look for an excuse not to pay up.... blame the stupid homeowner or someone else for bad wiring....perhaps
Sean shows a 200 amp and 400 amp breaker but not showing any actually connected to the 12k prototype...
but sounds like he (Sean)maybe using 2/0 cable in the video below (2/0 cable is too small for 12k) (I may need to review/clarify that again ( Sean's statement) so don't quote that please...)
he SAID he bought some discontinued ones he said would cost 300 to 500 dollars each....
another huge cost to the 48 volt 12k system design.....
I bought the 400 amp class t fuses for 8.50 each and the class t fuse holder were about 30 dollars or so... will likely cost more today though...with inflation 🤔🤔🤔
I have spares but have never blown a 400 amp class T fuse (knock on wood).
out of curiosity: I did find a 400 amp Heinemann 160 volt dc breaker new for $149 plus shipping on eBay and used/reconditioned for about 90 dollars,,,,but think the main purpose was a safety disconnect switch so still one would need an enclosure to mount it in as DC arc flash would be necessary to control.
I put in a battery disconnect switch for about 40 dollars on my 15k inverter,,,,
the problems i encounter are finding equipment that is suitable at high amperage at 48-volt DC and above...
looks like that 400 amp Heinemann breaker would require insulated stand offs mounted in a suitable enclosure....
400 amp safety switches dc rated are spendy....for sure....🤔
Sean shows a 200 amp and 400 amp breaker but not showing any actually connected to the 12k prototype...
yes he (Sean) in his YouTube video does say 2/0 wire is what he uses between the battery and 12k prototype,,,, so IMO and ampacity tables it say 2/0 copper cable is only rated at :
google search:
2/0 Gauge (AWG) Battery Cable is designed for higher amperage applications with a maximum voltage rating of 60 volts DC. 2/0 battery cable can comfortably handle 200 amps at a cable length of 15 feet.
so a 12k inverter would need more than 2/0 wire....the 400 amp breaker will not protect the wire at all when maxing out the gs12k inverter at 15000 or 18000 watts...
the 400 amp breaker will not trip and the wire will overheat with the pouch cell batteries at high amp draws...
15000 divided by 53 volts equals 283 amps
18000 divided by 53 volts equals 339.62 amps
the Heinemann 400 amp 65 volt dc rated breaker is only acting as a switch with the wrong over current rating needed for 2/0 copper cable..
the NEC code allows 175 amps for 2/0 copper cable and up to 195 amps for 2/0 cable if you buy the higher prices specialized cables...that have the more expensive insulative jacket...
you should review and reply 🤔🤔
they would likely red tag your house....if they find out....etc
but then again I am not the electrical inspector or utility company representative, or a engineer or electrician....
have a safe Monday 😎 and all other days for that matter!!!
I bought 100 amp and 200 amp disconnects the last 3 years.... the 200 amp ones were at least twice the price as the 100 amp ones, and it looks like the 400 amp ones are about twice the price as the 200 amp ones...
I hate working around live wires about as much as I hate working with plumbing under pressure....so valves and disconnects are a big priority for me...🤔🤔🤔😎😎😎
they need a good engineer/electrician to chime in to their forum....
20 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:they need a good engineer/electrician to chime in to their forum....
I've pretty well written this thread off as something to ignore; there's just so many unverified wild assumptions being stated as reality that it's simply not worth my time to refute every new message that comes up. I can't get anything else done if I'm always trying to keep things straight here.
Sean's battery cables on the 12kw GS inverter are 4/0. I have absolutely no idea where the "Sean's battery wires are 2/0" assertion came from...unless someone can provide a YT video link to prove the statement. The only reason he isn't using heavier wire is because I don't think he knows that bigger than 4/0 is measured in MCM sizes...
...heck, for the longest time, he had TWO 4/0 battery wires on each terminal (one from each battery module).
3 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:out of curiosity: I did find a 400 amp Heinemann 160 volt dc breaker new for $149 plus shipping on eBay and used/reconditioned for about 90 dollars,,,,but think the main purpose was a safety disconnect switch so still one would need an enclosure to mount it in as DC arc flash would be necessary to control.
Again, I have absolutely no idea where the assumption here comes from. They're a breaker, and they're rated to safely disconnect a load at up to (depending on the breaker) 10,000AIC (amps interrupt current) at the rated voltage. Got the breaker? You don't need any other switches.
But I digress. I need to actually get stuff done.
I hate working around live wires about as much as I hate working with plumbing under pressure....so valves and disconnects are a big priority for me...🤔🤔🤔😎😎😎
When I was living in IOWA a rich farmer I know instead of hiring someone to work on his well pump he unscrew the plug under high pressure and it hit him between his eye and was kill instantly . Most engineer I know will pay someone to do electrical works and be safe .
Sean's battery cables on the 12kw GS inverter are 4/0. I have absolutely no idea where the "Sean's battery wires are 2/0" assertion came from...unless someone can provide a YT video link to prove the statement.
in the above YouTube video the Genetry Solar 12k inverter is using 2/0 welding cable according to Sean's clearly worded and repeated statement....he is using the wrong size inverter cabling... at 12:19 in the video....he claims the 2/0 cabling use....watch it when you have the time....
in his later video the gs12k prototype inverter was running up to 18000 watts before it shut down to protect the mosfets....obviously the breaker was not protecting the 2/0 cable he repeatedly said he used.....in the above video...
but then again he (Sean) does not actually show any real/actual cable and breaker connections only shows a large breakers that are not connected... he said they cost him $100 each for the 400 amp DC breaker 65 volt rated...(Heinemann brand).
review his video... i watched it Sean's YouTube video twice and he clearly says he is using 2/0 inverter cabling.
a 400 amp breaker will not protect a 2/0 wire as the wire will overheat,,,, but then again maybe Sean needs to make a corrected YouTube video if he is publishing the wrong information about his prototype gs12k inverter sizing....
the 400 amp breaker will not trip until the 2/0 wire is way past is NEC (national electric code) allowable ampacity rating.....
he is using it a a disconnect switch and it will have the wrong size for 2/0 cables that Sean says he used...the breaker sizing's purpose should be to protect the wire from fire....that is why the NEC code lists the 2/0 cable to 175 or 195 amps maximum is to prevent the wire overheating and being the weak link potentially causing a fire...
a DC rated disconnect switch for 400 amps is expensive....anything above 200 amps is expensive... i have purchased them in the 100 and 200 amp sizes.....
he does not show them actually connected and so perhaps he does not know the actual cable size....
A side note: I had to replace a water valve under pressure in the city as the city's curbside water shut off did not function, and the small city would not repair their curbside water shut off valve...
A simple battery disconnect switch can be installed for 30-40 dollars....
the breaker with the correct size batter cable rating would be useful....I use class T 400 amp fuses with 4/0 copper cable plus the simple battery disconnect switch....the class T fuse have a 20,000 AIC (amps interrupt current) rating which I like better for the LiFePO4 banks I have assembled...
have a safe and productive day and never believe all the things you see...in YouTube videos🤔🤔
Biden makes gaffes routinely but he is 70 plus years old....🤣🤣🤔🤔😎 perhaps 78 to 79 years old today( i did not look it up)
assuming is never anything more than a guess and as often than not is the incorrect conclusion....😢
Most engineer I know will pay someone to do electrical works and be safe .
maybe Sean needs to hire an electrician like Engineer775 routinely does in his YouTube videos...👍
the Canadian engineer I follow gives good practical advice....
my freshman college year (in The Towers Dorm) >>>>my friend was an engineer....he was from my hometown and we worked in the soybean fields hoeing out the weeds together...freshman were required to live on campus as I recall...
I was a chemistry major and animal science major....
good licensed electricians usually have all the best safety equipment....i am always buying better tools it seems...🤔