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I ordered the cheap 12k from powerjack and got something else

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(@dickson)
Noble Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1058
 

The box says it's an ASL2

Can you still return  for the PJ 12kw  that you order  ?          Can this inverter  run  a refrigerator  and freezer   and maybe a  1/2 hp  well pump  ?          

 

 

 

 


   
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(@steve)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 212
Topic starter  

Runs my lights fridge tvs cooler and microwave without issue 


   
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(@steve)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 212
Topic starter  

Haven't tried it on the well pump but the better FETs it might I haven't tried it as I'm not sure I'm keeping it

If I keep it the top plate, center bolt  and rubber is coming off the transformer so it can get air flow


   
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(@dickson)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1058
 

Runs my lights fridge tvs cooler and microwave without issue

Being  able to run the microwave about  3000 watts  is  probably  equal to  what a 12000watt  AMG PJ inverter  can  barely do .     IF  running a microwave and  fridge at the same time  is about  4000 watts  so  your  inverter is  better than most  AMG  .         IF it run a well pump  then  for sure  PJ  done something  good  .      Thank you for the information   as you have a  good  main board  and control board .       


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2890
 

Oh come on @dickson....

Microwave: 1500W

Refrigerator: 100W (average).  OK, I'll give you 150W.

total 1650W.  Peanuts.


   
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(@dickson)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1058
 

total 1650W.  Peanuts                      For new  microwave  and  fridge that  use less wattage  .

Mine  appliance  are  over 20 years old  and use more wattage .      I like to see the AMG 8000w  inverter  run a  well pump .    


   
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(@steve)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 212
Topic starter  

It was also running the cooler 1/2h but it beeped when the motor started

Had my Upower 10K running all the same loads without much issue 


   
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(@robertm)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 205
 
Posted by: @steve
It was also running the cooler 1/2h but it beeped when the motor started

Is there a notice on the inverter that advises buying a "power choke" to safely start motors?


   
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(@dickson)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1058
 

Haven't tried it on the well pump but the better FETs it might I haven't tried it as I'm not sure I'm keeping it

I  would  return it because  the upower run without issue  and do not need a power choke .        Your  upower  should start a well  pump   so get  something  like  the upower .

The  notice for a power choke   show there is  a design  flaw in  starting  inductive load .      


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2890
 
Posted by: @dickson
Mine appliance are over 20 years old and use more wattage .

I've had appliances the same age...domestic microwaves simply don't run over 1,500W (max 1,650W) due to 120v circuit limitations.

And regular domestic refrigerators simply don't use over 150W continuous for the compressor.  Most of the time, they run under 120W.  There is absolutely no way a domestic 'fridge will use 1,000W continuous in normal operation.

 

@dicksonYou need to get your facts straight...all of your technical nonsense on the forums is getting quite annoying.


   
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(@steve)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 212
Topic starter  

Both my units have the choke warning

I blew up the upower starting the well but they sent me the parts so it runs again 


   
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(@robertm)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 205
 
3 hours ago, Steve said:

Both my units have the choke warning

I blew up the upower starting the well but they sent me the parts so it runs again 

I'm going to open up my PJ AMG 8000 to read the FET value. Your inverter has one more cap, and I'm curious to see if they put "better" FETs in your unit. People tell me caps can be added to these main boards, but maybe higher level MOSFET boards are available, too. The regular MOSFET boards for my unit are $25 ea.


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2890
 
36 minutes ago, RobertM said:

I'm going to open up my PJ AMG 8000 to read the FET value. Your inverter has one more cap, and I'm curious to see if they put "better" FETs in your unit. People tell me caps can be added to these main boards, but maybe higher level MOSFET boards are available, too. The regular MOSFET boards for my unit are $25 ea.

I will note, that no chain is stronger than its weakest link.

  • For continuous loads, the undersized transformer is the issue
  • For surge loads, the poor MOSFET drive is the issue
  • For loads that cause a red light and error, the control board / firmware is the issue

Putting more expensive FETs in a PJ inverter will just make the smoke more expensive. 

But seriously now, if there's 6x FETs/board, they're likely rated somewhere near 100A each (at least that's the TO-220 package limit!)  So 600A * 24v = 14,400W should be a safe continuous maximum for the FETs (not sure about the internal wiring or PCBs though!)  14,400W / 240v = 60A on the output (not counting losses).  Obviously, however, the inverters can't reach this without blowing up.  My point is that the FETs aren't necessarily the issue.

For example, it doesn't matter how many horsepower your gas engine is rated for, if the spark plug wires are shorting out and the timing's wrong!  It'll run very poorly, and maybe even blow up if pushed hard.  But that doesn't necessarily indicate a bad engine, as much as a poorly-controlled one.


   
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(@robertm)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 205
 
34 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

I will note, that no chain is stronger than its weakest link.

  • For continuous loads, the undersized transformer is the issue
  • For surge loads, the poor MOSFET drive is the issue
  • For loads that cause a red light and error, the control board / firmware is the issue

Putting more expensive FETs in a PJ inverter will just make the smoke more expensive. 

But seriously now, if there's 6x FETs/board, they're likely rated somewhere near 100A each (at least that's the TO-220 package limit!)  So 600A * 24v = 14,400W should be a safe continuous maximum for the FETs (not sure about the internal wiring or PCBs though!)  14,400W / 240v = 60A on the output (not counting losses).  Obviously, however, the inverters can't reach this without blowing up.  My point is that the FETs aren't necessarily the issue.

For example, it doesn't matter how many horsepower your gas engine is rated for, if the spark plug wires are shorting out and the timing's wrong!  It'll run very poorly, and maybe even blow up if pushed hard.  But that doesn't necessarily indicate a bad engine, as much as a poorly-controlled one.

OK, then. I seem to remember Ray Jungle Power on Ebay claiming  (before he vanished) that PJ used only top quality western transistors. I'm making progress towards another pump test.  I'm connecting the super capacitor bank in a better way. I will use 8 gauge copper cable, which is about the diameter of the terminal holes and just solder as securely as possible. It consists of 12 350F in series. I will charge it to the same voltage as my combined lead-acid and LiFePO4 (~ 20A at 230V) battery bank. By my calculations, the supercaps should provide an additional 2.5A @ 230V boost for 5 seconds.  My guess is that, in the earlier test, the inverter shut down due to voltage sag.

It pumped for a few seconds, then shut off with a red light.

 


   
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(@steve)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 212
Topic starter  

A few points on this

My upower is a 24v unit with 80A fets 6ea

That's 11.5KW if it was driving a square wave as a surge load if everything was perfect

That makes the fets a definite weak point for surge loads.

The ASL2 transformer doesn't dissipate heat well limiting the continues load but not the peak.

Poor drive will cause poor efficiency as the junction resistance will be higher than it should during transition time 

 


   
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