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Oh I didn't know that the envoy s was required. Mine is just the original envoy. I did read somewhere about changing the frequency as well but haven't been able to figure out of to do it either (probably would need the envoy s too) I have the m215s not the m250s but I assume it's all the same
Oh I didn't know that the envoy s was required. Mine is just the original envoy. I did read somewhere about changing the frequency as well but haven't been able to figure out of to do it either (probably would need the envoy s too) I have the m215s not the m250s but I assume it's all the same
Regardless of which type of "Envoy" you have, if it is possible to configure it for "zero export", then that is all we will need to make it work with a GS inverter.
From what I can tell mine isn't capable of zero export. There aren't any external connections where you'd plug the sensors into and there isn't a "zero export" grid profile in my envoy interface. I believe only the envoy s metered has that ability.
Not having the ability to throttle the micros isn't really a deal breaker for me. My system doesn't cover 100% of my needs so I don't see the inverter having to shut down my micros very often.
As long as the gs inverter has the ability to trick my micros into thinking they're on the grid and has the ability to put any excess power back into the bank and shut down the micros on the rare occasion that the bank is full and they're producing more than I'm currently using I think I'd be happy.
I do believe that the default shut-off is 60.5Hz after .16s on these micros. I know you have alot on your plate right now and I'm in no hurry so just keep me posted on updates that you think pertain to my situation if you could.
9 hours ago, Cali Carlos said:As long as the gs inverter has the ability to trick my micros into thinking they're on the grid and has the ability to put any excess power back into the bank and shut down the micros on the rare occasion that the bank is full and they're producing more than I'm currently using I think I'd be happy.
Yes, it should be able to trick the micros. (I say "should" because I haven't tested it with real microinverter yet.)
Yes, any excess power will backcharge into the batteries. Started doing some "real" grid-tie/parallel tests yesterday, and witnessed the power "draw" on my house inverter go negative with another GS inverter "grid-tying" into it. Planning to do more of that sort of testing today, and could provide photos/videos if you're interested.
Yes, it will shut down the whole system if the battery voltage/current gets out of hand.
9 hours ago, Cali Carlos said:I do believe that the default shut-off is 60.5Hz after .16s on these micros. I know you have alot on your plate right now and I'm in no hurry so just keep me posted on updates that you think pertain to my situation if you could.
It'll hit that pretty quick if any monitored numbers get out of hand ;-). Currently, the GS inverter will throttle up to 62.5Hz before throwing an error if the power doesn't disappear.
Let's say that the batteries reach full charge, and the A/C kicks off. Suddenly there's too much power coming into the GS inverter. It'll start to shift the frequency up...the grid-ties will shut off...the GS inverter will drop back to 60Hz (as the power will no longer be coming in), and power the house/loads from the battery. When the grid-ties start to turn back on again (~5 minutes later), it will resume charging the battery/running loads (if needed), otherwise they'll quickly get tripped off again.
9 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:Planning to do more of that sort of testing today, and could provide photos/videos if you're interested.
Unless you're doing it anyways there's no need to go through the trouble on my account.
How stable are the Hz with heavy loads coming on and off? For example a 3500 watt A/C comes on while there's already 1500watts on the system, or when it shuts off? Do you feel it might fluctuate enough to trip the micros since they have such little wiggle room?
Unless you're doing it anyways there's no need to go through the trouble on my account.
Output frequency will not change under load, as it is completely CPU-controlled. The only things that might adjust the output frequency would be strictly environmental (ambient/loaded internal temperature for one). Loads coming on/off will only affect the AC voltage for a brief instant until the inverter adjusts the "throttle" to maintain the desired AC output voltage.
The only time the CPU would purposefully start a frequency shift to trip off the grid-tie units would be if the grid-ties were pushing back through the inverter either (a) more power than it can handle, or (b) more than is allowed to charge the battery (if any).
I wouldn't think voltage would be an issue. Looks like there's a pretty good gap there.
Looks like you have a few settings there, which is nice. Voltage shouldn't swing that much with loads tripping on and off--and if perchance it does, it'll adjust significantly within 1-2 AC cycles (~0.03 seconds).
In the event any temperature-caused frequency shift might trip the micros off, you can calibrate the GS inverter's root output frequency in ~0.1Hz steps. Yeah, it's got lots of settings 😉
Some are even more customizable but the issue is you need some type of "token" to make any changes. I know I can purchase a subscription to enlighten manager and possibly get one thorough that but I'm not even sure about that. I'd give it a shot if I had to though.
Well, I do see that you can change the "trip recycle timeout" anywhere from 5 seconds to the default 5 minutes, so that's nice.
I really don't know if the regular "Envoy" has the ability to do zero-export--but if "crude" is better than nothing, your system as-is might work alright. On/off control is far better than no control at all 😉
I've never put that much thought into inverter chargers. I just assumed there was a separate battery charger in the same enclosure. But that isn't the case, I just learned. Sid, can you run down the general principle for my education? I have pictured a scenario in my head where the FETs of the H-bridge could be used as a sort of makeshift or intrinsic rectifier to "backfeed" into the battery using the body diodes. But I'm dumber than I am charming, so that's just me stabbing in the wind.
Sorry to side track your thread Carlos.
I have pictured a scenario in my head where the FETs of the H-bridge could be used as a sort of makeshift or intrinsic rectifier to "backfeed" into the battery using the body diodes.
That's actually exactly how it works in the very basic principle. However, the rectified transformer voltage is usually quite a bit lower than the "nominal" battery voltage--so some switching trickery with the FETs has to be employed to "boost" the transformer voltage as needed for standard charge. Adjusting this switching signal is how normal battery charge is regulated.
In grid-tie backfeed, however, the battery charge is an unexpected byproduct of the SPWM (sinusoidal pulse width modulation) signal that the FETs are getting to produce the sine-wave output. The only way to control it (and maintain the same AC output voltage) is to limit the incoming power via frequency shift. (BTW this "backfeed charge" is only possible on LF [low frequency] inverters, not HF [high frequency/"transformerless"] inverters.)
I will note that the main issue with the blocking diodes is their (comparatively) very high voltage drop. This makes the inverter run quite a bit hotter in charge mode--with a much lower charge current--than running inverter mode. Again, more drive trickery can be utilized to reduce this--but the inverter's maximum charge amperage will be limited by how much heat can be dissipated from the FETs. Alas, synchronous rectification is not possible with the CPU used on the GS inverters...that would be so efficient 😉
On/off control is far better than no control at all
Couldn't agree with you more.