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2 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:It literally starts from zero current and slowly ramps up to full power over a minute or so.
kind of like a soft start for the mini-split heat pump....
the cnswipower 3000watt HF inverter has a soft start ramp up type feature and will reportedly do the full 3000 watt output....a youtuber named "john daniel" talks them up as do several others >>> "off grid garage", etal...but they are HF inverters that can be bought for a mere $244.43 including tax and shipping....and have a 9-watt standby draw so won't waste much of the expensive storage battery resources if left connected. and it (the 3000-watt 24-volt cnswipower HF inverter) weighs about 15 pounds or less...they can be 12, 24 or 48 volts same price I think...😒🤔
I have not went the heat pump route yet, as I am looking more into other heat storage methods to utilize the excess solar generation....slow but sure...maybe more slow than sure! 😁😎 i plan to heat up water in tanks to help heat in winter...etc...but for the moment use cheap electric heaters some....
my son has an outdoor wood fired hot water boiler that he stokes with free scrap wood to heat his monster sized house in Colorado( it is neat but a bit pricey to get all set up) .... I like the solar electric route but batteries are the most expensive parts for my systems...
Sean should go with more efficient easy to start AC units as his monster sized inefficient starting household AC seemed to be one of his biggest problems to power up....
many in different forums talk up the heat pumps,,,,for me,,,>>>>> I am trying to keep it simple/easy,,, and above all try to make it be a good financial investment with a short payback time and hopefully long duration...🤔🤔...
the Taotronics 8000 BTU high efficient AC utilizes a two stage start up to use less power as is described by the reviewers,,, I don't need it (air conditioner) until next year but better to buy off season before inflation kicks in again...
another nice calm windless day so far.....😎 and partly sunny also 😁
honey doo list is great for tomorrow
14 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:the cnswipower 3000watt HF inverter has a soft start ramp up type feature and will reportedly do the full 3000 watt output....a youtuber named "john daniel" talks them up as do several others >>> "off grid garage", etal...but they are HF inverters that can be bought for a mere $244.43 including tax and shipping....and have a 9-watt standby draw so won't waste much of the expensive storage battery resources if left connected. and it (the 3000-watt 24-volt cnswipower HF inverter) weighs about 15 pounds or less...they can be 12, 24 or 48 volts same price I think...
I personally bought 2 of those units.
Worst inverters I've ever owned.
Yes, they will do the full 3,000W output, with 2 caveats:
- MUST be a purely resistive load. These inverters are absolutely horrible at handling any sort of inductive load. And I do mean terrible. A 120v T20 stapler I have won't even break a staple off the pack. (Compare to a Meanwell TS-3000 HF inverter that I had beforehand, which did run the stapler OK, if slightly weaker than the grid.) If you're running a fridge/freezer (which btw is the biggest compressor the Swipower can start), ANY inductive load will cause a dropout big enough to stall the fridge/freezer compressor. Which then will sit locked up until the compressor's thermal protector trips out. And (from experience) those thermal protectors are not designed to be regularly used--they WILL fail.
- The SwiPower will only run 3kw for about 20 seconds before overloading and shutting off. Electrically it's fully capable of running 3kw...just the overload circuit is too trigger-happy. Max continuous I was able to get was about 2,700W--which fails their advertising of, "It will do the rated power, unlike everyone else..."
On the plus side, I didn't blow either of the units up. Damaged one of them trying to hack the output circuit to disable (or at least throttle back) on the output IGBT current limit (yes, it does have one) so it could have some semblance of usable output...but ended up damaging the boost converter throttling, so it'd only run at idle.
These units use the EG8010 chipset for the output SPWM driver.
I went from a SwiPower to a Power Jack 9kw. The PJ obviously would overheat at 3kw continuous--but otherwise it would start and run anything I threw at it. Gone were the days of stalling the compressor in my 'fridge by using a power drill. Safe to say that the Swipower cured me of ever wanting to use an HF inverter as a whole-house inverter again.
14 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:Sean should go with more efficient easy to start AC units as his monster sized inefficient starting household AC seemed to be one of his biggest problems to power up....
That's not the point.
Customers are going to throw hard-starting A/C compressors at our inverters...and they'd better be able to handle it without any caveats!
I bought a 9kw from David yesterday for 200 dollars.
Do you know details of the internal specification for this return inverter? Did you pay an extra $49 for shipping?
Do you know details of the internal specification for this return inverter? Did you pay an extra $49 for shipping?
I pay shipping 49 dollars . I should get it from FED EX this Friday since I am only 5 and 1/2 hour to Powerjack warehouse and know what is inside . I will remove the control board and test the mosboard before any power on of the switch . The control board will be tested on my test bench later .
55 minutes ago, dickson said:Do you know details of the internal specification for this return inverter? Did you pay an extra $49 for shipping?
I pay shipping 49 dollars . I should get it from FED EX this Friday since I am only 5 and 1/2 hour to Powerjack warehouse and know what is inside . I will remove the control board and test the mosboard before any power on of the switch . The control board will be tested on my test bench later .
"Mama always said a PowerJack inverter was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get," ......Forrest Gump
every PowerJack is different for sure...
I will remove the control board and test the mosboard before any power on of the switch . The control board will be tested on my test bench later .
if you can show details of how you test it and pictures...that would be very helpful....
i am more into carpentry and still learning more about electronics,,,,so thanks for all your information and replies...😎
15 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:The SwiPower will only run 3kw for about 20 seconds before overloading and shutting off.
perhaps you had the older version without the improvements of the year 2022 cnswipower inverter that john daniel reviewed a month ago on YouTube..may not be comparing the same inverter...hard to say...but evidently you got some lemons >>>> how many years ago did you buy/use those???? "john daniel's YouTube review one month ago clearly shows it running for longer than 20 seconds and it has a 6000 watt peak for a few (ms) seconds....his YouTube video indicates they made various internal upgrades and shows the older one vs the new improved one....
the other question I see in many YouTube test videos is they do not have an adequate battery to run the inverter properly without a voltage sag/drop so bad/large that it does not function properly... you can not run or properly test an inverter without adequate battery voltage...
I definitely need to pay attention to inductive loads vs resistive loads....thanks for that information
I would not want the freezer or refrigerator to quit....the other half would yell and scream and stamp her feet at me repeatedly....the refrigerator and freezer are critical loads and will not be on the same load center as the shop anyways..>>>>a separate system for those heavy tools...
I do not have an inefficient hard to start huge amp pulling central Air Conditioner and have no plans to buy one, but my point was a more cost effective way of getting payback from the solar that is being generated,,,,the battery storage and some call them the ESS or energy storage system is by far the most expensive part in my solar builds....conservation is always the 1st step in remodeling by insulating then a smaller more economical sized heat/cooling system is required...
the 2022 version el cheapo ($243,43 including tax and free delivery) cnswipower 24-volt inverter 3000-watt HF PSW 120 volt output inverter has a standby draw of about 9 watts and will run a couple circuits easily but maybe not for some loads as you indicated...
the PowerJack 15000 watt an 20000 watt LF PSW SP inverters will do the heavy loads for the moment....until I choose a better inverter for the system.
I do not want WIFI connections to the inverter, grid charging, or standby generator complications in any off-grid inverter >>>> all that defeats the purpose of being off-grid solar for my builds.... or charge controllers that are WIFI connected/dependent on unknown upgrades...they need to work from the get go....not be dependent on the cloud...
KISS >>>> the keep it simple principle works better most times
I have a gas generator but don't care for the noise and pollution and is rarely used.
the inverter standby power consumption is something I am looking at more closely to increase system efficiency but the battery through the inverter efficiency is likely where most of the energy is lost with the LF inverters around 90 percent efficiency and HF inverters are often higher efficiency there also>>>but may not work for all loads equally well...
the rapid changes and innovations in the solar field are very interesting....hope they improve the most expensive part >>> the battery storage or ESS as that is the expensive part....
I see Sean selling the PowerJack parts now on his web page and touting the PowerJack ASL9 transformer in his YouTube video!!!! with no warranty of course???
7K inverter >>>> a 7000 watt load at 90 percent efficiency will require 7777.78 watt draw from the battery....per hour
12k inverter >>>> a 12000 watt load at 90 percent efficiency will require 13,333.33 watt draw per hour from the battery >>>>so to run autonomous for 3 days of no sun it would require >>>>
24x3 x13333.33 watts = 960,000 watts or 960 kwh battery.... hmmmm..... that would be a scary expensive battery 🤣
but a less than 500 watt consuming 8000 BTU Taotronics high efficient window AC (($183.71 including tax and delivery)) running part time on a HF inverter would be more cost effective....
how much do the heat pumps that heat n cool cost??? I have installed several high efficient propane furnaces(5) and a couple (3) central air units in the rental houses...but like the hot water boiler systems the best...
bill gates and jeff besos dont care what it costs ....wonder what the accountant says??? 🤔
if you can show details of how you test it and pictures...that would be very helpful.... i am more into carpentry and still learning more about electronics,
I can show with photos on testing mosboard and mosfets first . I can show the testing of control board and LF driver if it ok with Sean because he say he will not test the used control board or LF driver . I will have to wait for response before showing repair . Jack is up to no good if I get a picture of a 9kw this Friday because David is only follow his order .
how much do the heat pumps that heat n cool cost??? I have installed several high efficient propane furnaces(5) and a couple (3) central air units in the rental houses...but like the hot water boiler systems the best.
I repair and install my 4 ton heat pump for 6100 dollars . The cost to run my one heat pump is 400 to 500 dollars per month from June to September so a 12kw inverter will pay for itself in 2 years in elecitric saving . Most people in Arizona MUST have heat pump and pay as much a 20000 dollars for 2 heat pumps to keep cool enough . The cost to run 2 heat pumps is 600 to 900 dollars per month . AC repair man average earning 100,000 dollars a year and a lot of scrammer .
I see Sean selling the PowerJack parts now on his web page and touting the PowerJack ASL9 transformer in his YouTube video!!!! with no warranty of course??
NO NO he is sellling now the AS9 transformer not the ASL9.0 like in your 20kw inverter and my inverter . He say the secondary is too small diameter in the AS9 transformer and get hot at high inductive load .
5 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:perhaps you had the older version without the improvements of the year 2022 cnswipower inverter that john daniel reviewed a month ago on YouTube..may not be comparing the same inverter...hard to say...but evidently you got some lemons >>>> how many years ago did you buy/use those???? "john daniel's YouTube review one month ago clearly shows it running for longer than 20 seconds and it has a 6000 watt peak for a few (ms) seconds....his YouTube video indicates they made various internal upgrades and shows the older one vs the new improved one....
So I bought the 2 SwiPower 3kw units in 2017. Worth noting that it's a very simple adjustment to increase the current limit on the output, and tweak the shutdown level--but neither of those would change core design/functionality. (I don't see any notable design changes in the YT video vs the units I had.) John Daniel's video is also a year old at this point anyway.
...and glancing through John Daniel's video, I'm reminded that they were running those poor 12v cooling fans at 18v. Which they would burn out after a year or so...I ended up putting a small buck converter inside the inverter to drop the voltage to 12-13v when I replaced the fans. Unless he measured the voltage on the cooling fans to confirm a correction, I doubt they did.
Also looks like they cheapened out by making the fan control one of those awful Klixon-type thermal switches. Worth noting that the hottest heatsink in the unit is the full bridge heatsink--and they have the temperature sensor on the IGBT output drive heatsink. Cheers!
Output IGBTs are the same size as the ones in the units I purchased, a TO-247 case.
Worth noting that John Daniel is trying to take credit for the temperature sensor being moved to the low side of the heatsink--but my video from 2017 clearly shows the temperature sensor already in the low side of the heatsink! My older units also utilize a proper thermistor instead of a (cheaper) Klixon-type switch that tends to fail/stick. PJ-level quality.
Attached video is a short little clip showing the SwiPower 3kw inverter "starting" a regular Makita circular saw. Note the voltage sag from 120v to 58v--and the horribly hacked up output AC waveform. I have another video showing the result of purposely stalling the circular saw: output voltage falls to 50v and just sits there.
Here's a photo of the interior. Note that the internals of this inverter are basically identical to John Daniel's video--except for some visible cost-cutting measures.
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Notice that they have cut the DC bus caps from 4pcs (here) to 3pcs (John Daniel video). Cost-cutting and not an improvement!
You can also see the proper thermistor on the heatsink--not one of those awful cheap Klixon switches.
5 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:
the PowerJack AS9 transformer ........,
12k inverter >>>> a 12000 watt load at 90 percent efficiency will require 13,333.33 watt draw per hour from the battery >>>>so to run autonomous for 3 days of no sun it would require >>>>
🤣
Sean explains the perfect application for that transformer would be someone that could rewind it and attach larger secondary leads, which is beyond me. At this point, I can do some rudimentary testing and board swaps.
My PW inverter is probably not as efficient as 90%. I don't have a DC clamp meter, so it would be difficult to test. I have only enough battery storage for critical systems like refrigerator and furnace for about 12 hours. After that, I would need to recharge with solar panels, and generator. My current camping generator is too small to be much use, however. I have a natural gas line in the solar shed, so a smart next move would be to install a bigger generator running off natural gas.
<a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="/profile/29-pilgrimvalley/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="29" href="/profile/29-pilgrimvalley/" rel="">@pilgrimvalleyIf this is the Jack Daniel video you're referring to, there's several major issues:
Firstly, he never takes it past 1650W. Not even past 2,000W. It won't shut down until you reach 2,800W--which I have a video of, and will happily post if you're interested.
Jack Daniel's new video from a month ago runs to a MAXIMUM load of 1,440W. Again, this is NOT a proper load test of the inverter!
He may be running an A/C, but it's a very efficient one that might have a significantly reduced surge. I have a video of the SwiPower FAILING to start a large old window unit--one that the MeanWell TS-3000 HF inverter could start. (An A/C, mind you, which even a small PJ won't even flinch to start.)
2 hours ago, RobertM said:Sean explains the perfect application for that transformer would be someone that could rewind it and attach larger secondary leads, which is beyond me.
me either.. I would not rewind an ASL9 transformer....I did see Sean was selling it on his GS web site for $349 for 48-volt version and $499 for 24-volt ASL9 transformer plus shipping w/o warranty and said they are prized and rare??? wonder what the difference is????
I just bought the complete 20000 watt LF PSW SP PowerJack inverter as a parts machine for $470.23 from the eBay vender ... including shipping and taxes... with an ASL9 transformer.... I still need to test it more and do some repair first but wanted it as a second standby inverter sitting ready if needed....
I am definitely not interested in running a generator but have a 12000 watt gas generator with electric start in the garage for powerless work sites ((( I do not like the generator noise)))!!!!
I will have to check out the John Daniel YouTube HF inverter video for the cnswipower inverter again. but won't try to use it as a whole house inverter anyways or a shop inverter... the one I watched said it was new for 2022 I think >>>> but could be wrong information???
the other thing about inverters is a 12000 watt inverter at 48 volts will pull a lot of amps....more at 24 volts >>>> that is why they don't make 'em for 24 volt set ups...
12000watt / 48volt = 250 amps and would require a DC rated fuse (( one could use an expensive DC rated breaker also))..and rated to at least 25 percent greater so 250*1.25 = 312.5 ampere rated DC fuse probably have to go to a 350 amp fuse to protect the inverter and 350 amp capable cabling....I have been using 400 amp Class T fuses between the inverter with 4/0 copper cables....without ever having any issues...but not redlining (the inverters) them up that high((never ran them at 12000 watts output ... not interested in blowing them up....rather the exact opposite, but do like to make them more efficient if possible....))
12000watt / 24volt = 500 amps......
I was reading the solar equipment federal tax credit (((ITC investment tax credit))) aka residential Solar credit is increasing to 30 percent in 2023 in the USA....is that correct??? wow! there was something about the batteries need to get 75 percent of their charge from solar....so would be very workable for an off-grid solar electric system and evidently there is no maximum investment cap....for some reason the accounting spreadsheet make me look it up on the web... anyone know for sure????
the sun is out again today so I will do some minor fence and feeder updates for the hair sheep flock.....so I can enjoy the great outdoors and the sun's rays!!! and celebrate with family of course..!!!
thanks for your replies and have great relaxing Thanksgiving holiday....😎