Victron 3000 multiplus II only out put 2400 watts so not the full 3000watts each (terribly expensive)

That's pretty good efficiency for a power inverter. 

Let me know if you can find a comparably sized power inverter in the PJ price range that has actual efficiency >92%, then we can talk down at Victron.

Hint: there aren't any.

yah, but you're only going to get about 3kw continuous out of those PJs in the first place.  With zero reliability guarantee.

If you buy a Victron, you're expecting quality, reliability, service, support, an ecosystem ("equipment that works together"), and a solid feature set.

If you buy a PJ, consider yourself fortunate if you can check any of the above boxes.

Keep in mind, a comparison is only fair if all items in the comparison are on the same playing field.  Not only are Victron and PJ not on the same playing field, they aren't even in the same universe.

Look a bit closer.  A large number of inverter manufacturers like to rate their units in VA--volt amps--instead of watts.  An inverter rated for 3000 "volt amps" could very well end up maxing out at 2300 "true watts", depending on the power factor of the loads connected.  (True Watts = Volt-Amps * [Load Power Factor]) where Power Factor is a number between 0-1 that measures how cleanly the load matches a pure resistive load.  A pure resistive load will (should!) have a power factor of 1.0.

Technically, they aren't "fibbing" on ratings, though the practice could certainly be considered misleading.

I'm actually a little surprised that this does appear to be the case--at least for the 48v reviewed by Will Prowse.  Certain select MultiPlus units are U.L. cert, but most of them apparently aren't.  Surprise!

I   do not own any Victron inverters at this time but did note it does not output a lot in all reality for the big bucks.                   I  do not own any Victron inverters  either   but Victron  is the best  for RV .            Darren iwho is Sean neighbor  in the other forum  found that  Victron  is ahead of    most inverter company   with  20000 watts  .continous output .  

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Huh?

He's got a Growatt 8kw AFAIK.

And that Victron "package deal" you posted is using two 10kw Victron inverters, not a "single unit".  So not quite "ahead of everyone else"...

He's got a Growatt 8kw AFAIK .          He is  waiting for  for   a  GS 12kw  .       He only  talk about  a Victron  in the other  forum  when he had problem  with the Growatt .      His Growatt   is working good now  with the new update from  SS .           Victron  is too expensive  .        

Yeah, 92% at max output is actually quite good.

I have had little time running my [24v] GS6 at maximum to make a good comparison, but the GS seems to range (within 200W to 4000W load) from about 83% to 93%*, with the peak being somewhere around the 3.5K mark. Efficiency markedly decreases as maximum output is approached, probably dropping close to 85% at 6K. The victron probably experiences a similar efficiency curve.

*My GS operates in very cold environment and my loads are mostly resistive. YMWV.

Victron seems to make good equipment, though i don't particularly buy the idea that they're notably "great" in the RV and Marine markets any more than they're decent in any other inverter-centric consumer market - price notwithstanding. IMO, where they stand out is in the system-monitoring market - and their solution still leaves much to be desired - and a hole in your pocket.

FYI, victron usually rates their products in VA, not Watts. Probably helps remove the need to hedge their ratings against poor power factor use cases. The reason big businesses get penalized for poor power factor is because it requires a bigger generator to power the same wattage when the power factor is lower. Engineering wise, rating in VA is probably the most correct metric - albeit confusing for the consumer.

yes, the kit to get 2 Victron multiplus II inverters to only put out small watts with a test showing 92 percent efficiency 

was $4700 dollars plus... that was the kicker...

https://www.currentconnected.com/product/6kva-victron-kit/?ref=cPwLcVc0SW-BjN

right now I am testing with a 3500 watt HF Vevor PSW inverter to try and test / increase efficiency.....for the small loads

but the apples to oranges comparison is you can buy the same amount of output in a PowerJack for about 700 dollars delivered,,, that is the reality...

and there are videos showing the highly touted / very expensive Victron inverters crapping out.... off grid garage had one take a dump in less than a year...i think

the 20,000 watt PSW LF SP PowerJack inverter 130 plus pound beast was $470 delivered so that is 1/10th the price of a Victron (blue plastic is expensive)

what will give you the best return for your investment???

ps: I have a blue Ford front wheel assist 110hp tractor of steel vs a green paint John Deere tractor in the mountains.... economics   🤔😎

I like green paint just expensive to buy....

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8 hours ago, NotMario said:

I have had little time running my [24v] GS6 at maximum to make a good comparison, but the GS seems to range (within 200W to 4000W load) from about 83% to 93%*, with the peak being somewhere around the 3.5K mark. Efficiency markedly decreases as maximum output is approached, probably dropping close to 85% at 6K.

Sounds about right....curious if your measured efficiency matches (or is within a few %) of the "Xfrmr Eff." readout on the Stat screen?

The significant loss of efficiency at high loads is pretty much a result of the transformer wire temperature coefficient--the hotter it gets, the higher its resistance = the greater the losses.  (So it's a vicious spiral once things start getting warmed up.)

And don't argue copper vs aluminum--both have a very similar temperature coefficient.  If the 2 different materials were sized appropriately in a comparison, the efficiency curve would be basically the same.

6 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

the 20,000 watt PSW LF SP PowerJack inverter 130 plus pound beast was $470 delivered so that is 1/10th the price of a Victron (blue plastic is expensive)

what will give you the best return for your investment???

The Victron, hands down.

I have yet to hear anyone boasting of "passing their PJ down to their kids."  Or having any resale value.

6 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

and there are videos showing the highly touted / very expensive Victron inverters crapping out.... off grid garage had one take a dump in less than a year...i think

Lemons happen.  The question is, what kind of customer service did he get?

you already know what kind of customer service you get from PJ, so the "bar to clear" isn't very hard 🙂.

Victron inverters are no doubt expensive but they are well designed/built and have clear and accurate spec's with lots of features.  The electronics are old school but solid.  Frankly, I was hoping GS inverters would be like Victron inverters but with more modernized/simplified electronics and more economical.

49 minutes ago, JIT said:

Frankly, I was hoping GS inverters would be like Victron inverters but with more modernized/simplified electronics and more economical.

We aren't trying to copy anybody...were you referring to that or more of an ecosystem thing?  Or are there specific areas we fall short for your usecase?

Specifically, GS inverters don't have the proven/tested grid/generator input power assist, inverter paralleling and AC coupling with grid-tied inverters with backfeed charging control via frequency shifting based on battery SOC monitoring (via BMS integration) functions that are available on Victron Multiplus/Quattro inverters.  On the hand, Victron doesn't offer a self-contained split-phase inverter (external autotransformer or minimum 2 required for split phase).

for me I do not need or want any sort of grid tie, or any type of gas generator to be controlled by the inverter. so 10 of the 20,000 watt PowerJack psw sp lf inverters at $470 each delivered still gives the best bang for the buck vs 2 victron multiplus II for $4700 dollars.... if a PowerJack goes bad replace it... bolt in bolt out

I do not use a gas generator unless I go to a remote jobsite and have not used one in a long time and will not use a gas generator in my off grid solar build either....

yes >>> not an apples for apples comparison , only comparing the raw inverter output not the bells and whistles that are not needed!!! In my off grid solar set up...

all the extra bells and whistles are nifty but expensive...

my main idea was to bring up efficiency and how many watts would be pulled from the battery bank to get the 92 percent efficiency..

seems many do no take this into effect..

yes there is essentially no warranty with any PowerJack unless it fails within the 1st 14 days then return at the seller expense or if there is shipping damage...

I returned a 13 month old Richmond 240 volt electric water heater this afternoon and they gave me a new replacement....it had a 2 year warranty and out of the blue just quit at 13 months after installation....so that warranty via Menards was great ( unbolt the old one drain it throw it in the truck 2 hours later bolt in the new one in the snow storm )

yes the victron lovers/fan club with lots of money would not say anything bad about the huge expense to buy 2 of them.... please forgive me I am not bashing or disliking the blue plastic Victron in anyway >>>> just comparing raw output of inverter >>>> efficiency >>>> 

yes I know,,,, no warranty ,,,,, on PowerJack 😢🤔😎

I will let you know when the PowerJack dies if & when 🤔

have a great evening,,,, I have a bottle lamb new born in the snow this morning to help keep me awake...😢

On the other hand, the GS is receiving occasional firmware updates. Most of that functionality can be added in firmware. Grid Assist is on my wish-list. And Power-Assist is basically just the reverse of grid-assist anyway. GS lacks the secondary input - but i don't consider that a flaw. I actually think it's presumptuous for an inverter to think it's part of it's role to choose it's own power source.  About as bad as the presumption that it should be responsible for starting a generator. 😄

I don't think there's any particular Victron fan-club here. I'm sure one exists, but i believe this is the GenetrySolar forums, not the Victron Forums. lol
I suppose it could come down to one question: When the zombie apocalypse happens, would you rather have your 10 PJ inverters, or the Victron Equivalent. With the cost factored out, i'd bank on the Victron solution -- because i know the track record is solid. THAT is what you're paying for -- not the capabilities, or even the efficiency. No, the reliability. And the backing, though that obviously wont matter in the zombie apocalypse.

I don't think anybody here has downplayed how expensive Victron is. That is self-evident, although certainly not unique to Victron. Feel free to look at AIMS - which in addition to being expensive, is also seemingly very feature deficient.

If you're wanting efficiency, the inverter is just a part of it. There are fairly big margins in other areas of your system too - like battery round-trip efficiency, or genny efficiency, or solar/wind efficiency. If you're running LA batts, you might as well kiss efficiency goodbye, that ~80% will make even a poor quality inverter look efficient by comparison. Oh, and your typical gas genny efficiency of 20%? --- the inverter is an afterthought at that point.

16 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Sounds about right....curious if your measured efficiency matches (or is within a few %) of the "Xfrmr Eff." readout on the Stat screen?

The significant loss of efficiency at high loads is pretty much a result of the transformer wire temperature coefficient--the hotter it gets, the higher its resistance = the greater the losses.  (So it's a vicious spiral once things start getting warmed up.)

And don't argue copper vs aluminum--both have a very similar temperature coefficient.  If the 2 different materials were sized appropriately in a comparison, the efficiency curve would be basically the same.

Pretty much exactly why i added the note about my operating environment. I doubt very many operate their inverters at freezer temps.

I'll check the Xfmr efficiency value the next time i put some loads on it. The way i calculate efficiency is by dividing AC Watts by DC Watts. The GS doesn't appear to have a value for DC Amps (though it seems to have a calibration placeholder) - my shunt fills that information in - not sure how you could accurately calculate efficiency without that information. You should add this to Web gauge, FYI. 😄