Questions and Strange Quirks...

wow, I got mine in a closet and they never run that hot, highest I've ever seen is around 111 and thats with a 3k load and the ambant temp is 74 in the house.  There is no air being pushed into that closeted area where I got my stuff.  Seems like you got something crossed or wired wrong. it should never get 134f at 4k.  unless your running it with no fans my GS are set at 11% fan speed at 110f. .

5 hours ago, Richard said:

I'm still wondering about that "nothing but a jumper on Neutral"...what is the function on the "outside" jumper from Output Neutral to Output Neutral if there is no internal connection from Output Neutral to Neutral on the Control Board (or am I confused)?

So the "jumper" is internal from the O-N terminal to the O-L2 (or O-L1) terminal on the control board.  Purely to short out one of the AC filter caps so they aren't in series.  There should not be any connection from the O-N control board terminal to the front panel.

5 hours ago, Richard said:

But, Inverter 1 (Rev 1) shows:

TTA

TMA

TTB

Inverter 2 (Rev 2) shows:

TTA

TMA

TTB

TMB

????? (No TMB displayed on inverter 1 (yes, I did scroll down)). TMB does display on wifi.genetrysolar.com...

If "TMB does display on wifi.genetrysolar.com", is it "-0.1F" or something like that?  It's unlikely--but possible--that a thermistor failed and is reading open-circuit (in which case it won't display on the WiFi board.)

5 hours ago, Richard said:

I also think I'm getting bogus readings from Inverter 1...both mosfet and transformer readings are in the 115-120 range...Reading right now:

Considering that all those temps are below even the original 108F fan threshold, the above temps look fine.  One issue that I am aware of is that the PJ-produced thermistors were done incorrectly--so oftentimes the TxA thermistors will both be transformer, and the TxB thermistors will both be MOSFET (or vice-versa) instead of as named.  This is fairly easy to identify under load, as the FETs generally run much cooler than the transformer.

5 hours ago, Richard said:

One inverter is blowing out of the fan above the transformer...the other inverter is sucking air in...??? Both have air sucking in at the battery posts...

Fans should all be blowing inwards to the chassis; the idea is to vent the hot air out at the base of the transformer.

A reversed fan would very likely explain why the one inverter is overheating well below max rated load.  Not sure why one fan's upside down...

5 hours ago, Richard said:

Is it just a matter of flipping the fan over?

Yes.  Fans all run the same direction, so the mounting direction determines which way the air moves.

Fans should all be blowing inwards to the chassis; the idea is to vent the hot air out at the base of the transformer.

Sean  wire the 2 fans  ( battery terminal side )  blow OUT .   The 2 fans ( Genetry Solar  side )  Blow IN  to the chassis .  The  fan throttle is 40 percent  at 10000 watts  and inverter room temperature is  90 degree F .    The 4 fans make almost no noise .   Temperature outside  104 degree .    Do not know why Sean 2 inverter in his basement on youtube   throttle  80 percent .    

Just noticed that some things changed (temp readings disappeared from the web display)... Thanks. I hated all the extra crap showing...

I didn't mention which fan was upside down, but you are right that the upside down fan inverter is the one overheating at low outputs...Another thanks.

And another question: reading your comment above, I think I'm reading that it's the thermistor that has an ID that show up in the display and not the placement of the connector on the control board that determines what it will display?

Not trying to beat a dead horse...the external N to N connection on the output side in split sync? The internal wire is going nowhere if it's not connected to Neutral on the control board...??? So, what would be the purpose of connecting N to N?

TMB is 87 on one and 90 on the other

Yep if you got one blowing air out of the case then that is causeing a nagative pressure differance.  You got to have both blowing into the case to creat a postive pressure to force any heat inside the case to be ejected.  That is how a building pressure system works in places that serve food. keeps the heat from building up in the kitchen and also makes the dinning area stay cool as well as forces any insect from flying in when you open the door.

Thanks.

Yep if you got one blowing air out of the case then that is causeing a nagative pressure differance.  You got to have both blowing into the case to creat a postive pressure to force any heat inside the case to be ejected.

I  think Sean  youtube  has 2 fans blow IN  and the other 2 fans BLOW OUT  .     MY inverter  has  2 fans blow in  and the other 2 fans blow out  and the transformer  temperature  is less than  120 degree F  and  4  fans  throttle is at most 40 percent  and running  10000 watts  inductive load .     I been running  like this for over 2 weeks and inverter never shut down  due to transformer  overheat  .     Seem impossible  as no inverter on youtube  run this quiet .    

Wow, is this a 12k?  I know after sid has help me with my GS we change the fan settings and wow, they dont' scream any more. they start at 11% sometimes only one fan kicks on at 25% and then shut off.  I've worked on my setup a bit today, and got my solar system hitting over 75A today. only 25a more to go and it will be maxed out.  Now if I can get some more batts on the system.

Wow, is this a 12k?  I know after sid has help me with my GS we change the fan settings and wow, they dont' scream any more.

YES  at 10000 watts and the power room is 90 degree F  and the MSB fan  next to the inverter  is  screaming  but the 4 inverter fans is quiet .   I like to know if other  inverter has  quiet  fans   or is  mine  different .  

It's the placement of the connector on the control board that makes the difference; these are simple NTC thermistors, not fancy DS18B20s.  The hardware "differentiation" of thermistors is that the "transformer" ones have a black epoxy end (can be safely shoved into the transformer windings without shorting anything), and the "MOSFET" ones have a ring terminal (so they can be bolted to the heatsinks).  But the inverter control board can't differentiate between the two; as far as the CPU is concerned, it's got 4 temp sensors.

I think I need to draw up a diagram here for single-phase internal wiring...it's getting too confusing without one 😉.

Sometimes EMI (or otherwise) will cause a thermistor to briefly read--at which point it gets added to the display.  Thermistor readings don't "expire" from the screen unless refreshed.

3 hours ago, dickson said:

I like to know if other  inverter has  quiet  fans   or is  mine  different .  

Thus far, all GS inverters (apart from a few of the VERY first ones several years back) have fans from the exact same manufacturer.  We'll have to change fan suppliers on the next order of inverters--but the fan specs should stay roughly the same.

So no...there are no "quiet fans for certain customers" here at GS.  You can run the fan channels (one at a time) in TEST mode on the GS inverter, and ramp the throttle to 100% to hear how loud they can get at full blast 😉.

8 hours ago, dickson said:

I  think Sean  youtube  has 2 fans blow IN  and the other 2 fans BLOW OUT  .     MY inverter  has  2 fans blow in  and the other 2 fans blow out  and the transformer  temperature  is less than  120 degree F  and  4  fans  throttle is at most 40 percent  and running  10000 watts  inductive load .     I been running  like this for over 2 weeks and inverter never shut down  due to transformer  overheat  .     Seem impossible  as no inverter on youtube  run this quiet .    

So we're dealing with different versions of GS inverters; <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="/profile/3-the-blind-wolf/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="3" href="/profile/3-the-blind-wolf/" rel="">@The Blind Wolf has the original design with 2 fans, both blowing inwards.  <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="/profile/49-dickson/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="49" href="/profile/49-dickson/" rel="">@dickson has an all-original "complete Rev. C" GS 12kw inverter with 4 fans, two blowing "in" and two blowing "out".

The funny thing about other 12kw inverters on YouTube...is that I have yet to see a single long-term load test on any other manufacturer's ~12kw inverter!  Not a single one. 
Which makes comparisons very difficult.

Probably because they would blow up before long an anything approaching full load...ask me how I know...

Quote

Sometimes EMI (or otherwise) will cause a thermistor to briefly read--at which point it gets added to the display.  Thermistor readings don't "expire" from the screen unless refreshed.

Anything to do to resolve this? I've seen one inverter show as many as 9 temp readings...

Just about every time I walk out to the power room the comment is "damn, those things are loud..." but, that's why they operate where they are...

Places that work with food create a positive pressure because it prevents unfiltered air from being able to reach protected rooms - this is to prevent the infiltration of airborne diseases. Heat removal is actually a secondary effect - intentional or unintentional.

Heat removal by ventilation can be achieved using negative, positive, and balanced pressure systems - depending on the particular use case. An inverter seems to be a good use case for 2-fan positive pressure because there are 2 major components to cool down (the inverter, and the transformer). Sounds like the 12K GS uses a balanced-pressure system - i would assume because it reduces thermal eddies. Probably a more significant factor in reaching the 12K threshold then one might think.