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53 minutes ago, jamjon said:
That one is a completely different case...one that I've actually considered implementing over the past 2 years (low priority, haha!) Didn't know it was a real thing already done by other inverters in the market.
That's an LF inverter that is trying to zero out the grid usage by pulling power from the batteries (until a certain battery discharge setpoint is reached). This is 100% technically possible in a GS inverter; again, I haven't written the code for that yet. (Been busy sorting out production logistics the past while.)
That app note is not detailing use of a grid-tie microinverter wired directly a solar panel, connected to a LF inverter.
20 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:That one is a completely different case...one that I've actually considered implementing over the past 2 years (low priority, haha!) Didn't know it was a real thing already done by other inverters in the market.
That's an LF inverter that is trying to zero out the grid usage by pulling power from the batteries (until a certain battery discharge setpoint is reached). This is 100% technically possible in a GS inverter; again, I haven't written the code for that yet. (Been busy sorting out production logistics the past while.)
That app note is not detailing use of a grid-tie microinverter wired directly a solar panel, connected to a LF inverter.
Zero-Export grid tie on the GS would pretty much resolve these issues entirely.
Wind, Solar, Hydro, Hamster-Wheels, whatever. Send it to the DC bus. It either gets stored or consumed.
Granted, the direct-consumption case would be less efficient than a solar inverter. But simplicity has it's price sometimes.
Still waiting for that feature to get released. Would resolve the biggest issue i have with my current setup.
46 minutes ago, NotMario said:Still waiting for that feature to get released. Would resolve the biggest issue i have with my current setup.
I'm in a quagmire of stuff to deal with at the current moment--but that feature is completely possible.
Backfeeding into the grid could be illegal unless the inverter was UL-cert; you would be responsible for complying with all of the necessary rules/restrictions in your area. Of course, zero-export means "no power into the grid", so technically it'd be OK.
it would probaly be to much but if could make the grid prioty and always draw say 200 watts ? and add in battery and solar utill that is to low to run the load and then ramp up the grid to match the load and to charge the battery utill it is full and then ramp the grid back down to 200 watts again
it would probaly be to much but if could make the grid prioty and always draw say 200 watts ? and add in battery and solar utill that is to low to run the load and then ramp up the grid to match the load and to charge the battery utill it is full and then ramp the grid back down to 200 watts again
You're suggesting instead of a true "zero export" of 0W (with risk of going negative) for the function to try to hold AC input at +200W for some safety headroom?
which ever would be easier to code but seems like the 200 watt idea would solve the problm about what to do with excess energy since there would not be any correct? I know nothing about anything except trading stock just to be clear.
I have not seen any inverter that can vary the input of the grid ,solar and battery all at one time ,do not know if it is even possible but it would be huge step forward .
12 minutes ago, jamjon said:I know nothing about anything except trading stock just to be clear.
No worries 😉.
12 minutes ago, jamjon said:which ever would be easier to code but seems like the 200 watt idea would solve the problem about what to do with excess energy since there would not be any correct?
So <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="/profile/133-notmario/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="133" href="/profile/133-notmario/" rel="">@NotMario is referring to a completely different setup than I believe you were (at least until the Outback AN!)
It sounded to me like you were wondering about connecting existing grid-tie inverters (microinverters or otherwise) to the Genetry Solar inverter to offset power usage/charge the batteries, etc. Which is technically possible--though it does come with some notable complexities, mostly centering around "what to do with excess power" when there's no place to put it. About the only option is to shut down the grid-tie inverter (which is external from the GS inverter). According to UL regulations, they MUST shut down via frequency shift or AC voltage range.
I believe the newer UL regulations REQUIRE linear throttling via either frequency shift or AC voltage (regardless of what magic controllers the grid-tie manufacturer might offer)--I'm not 100% clear on the regulations. But this functionality can technically be utilized by a GS inverter to trip off (at least for a short time) a grid-tie inverter to stop power flow.
<a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="/profile/133-notmario/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="133" href="/profile/133-notmario/" rel="">@NotMario is referring to a completely different setup (concept in the Outback AN), where the Genetry Solar inverter behaves "almost" like a grid-tie inverter. Where the AC Input is connected to the grid...but the inverter when in Pass-Thru mode can be configured to monitor the power flow on the AC Input--and pull power from the battery bank to offset loads connected to the inverter's AC Output (which in Pass-Thru are shorted together with the internal Mains relay). The goal with "zero-export" is to ensure that the GS inverter never actually pushes power INTO the grid (where it would quickly fall afoul of grid-tie regulations). It merely tries to offset as much of the AC loading connected to it (the Genetry inverter) as possible based on the available power on the input.
The risk here is that if a heavy load connected to the GS inverter is turned off, this huge load suddenly disappears--and the GS inverter gets caught redhanded with it's throttle near to the metal (to offset the draw of said huge load). And some power could potentially slip backwards into the grid for a fraction of a second until the inverter realizes what's going on and kills the throttle. (Somewhat curiously, this potential risk is detailed in the Outback AN! For clarity, I am NOT copying the Outback AN concept--no, I have been fully aware of this potential ability for several years at this point. Thought I invented it for LF inverters actually........)
I have not seen any inverter that can vary the input of the grid ,solar and battery all at one time ,do not know if it is even possible but it would be huge step forward .
Can you explain what you mean by that? There's definitely electrical, practical, material and mechanical limits, but I guess we can realize a lot within said limits!
which ever would be easier to code but seems like the 200 watt idea
honestly, it won't make any difference! Could even be a setting, "ideal ZEX Watt"...
I was just trying to think of a way an inverter could monitor grid,solar and battery input at the same time and use the power to meet the loads but instead of having SBU alone have a SBU but when it goes back to solar maintian enough draw from U to eliamate any chance of backfeed
It's possible
200W is actually a bit high
Just a question of spotting the zero point
The hardware would see it as charging mode basically
Not sure on the software
The hardware would see it as charging mode basically
It's actually a completely separate method of driving the H-bridge to support this functionality. Literally negative charge.
200W is actually a bit high
Can you elaborate? GS inverters have bidirectional power flow monitoring (as you might have noticed on yours), so it's pretty easy to get close to true zero power...but having a little safety margin ("200W") is not a bad idea.