Pre-Order Discussions

As I understand it the unit I'm running now has all the updates of the latest design except for the bus bar battery current sensing

The new GS6kw will do everything your old GS6kw will do but  Sean can not sell the old looking design .     The new Gs6kw  has different  shell  and bus bar instead of cable  and  custom cable and  copper terminal  and waiting for the new rev C2 control board  and the GS6kw transformer is not coming from Jack so need to load test the different GS6kw transformer .     I am sure you are  willing to pay a lot more for the new GS6kw inverter  as it look pretty but will still only do  6kw .       I am only guessing as Sean for some reason not talk about the GS6kw on Back Order ?   

That's fair

Mine has been getting design updates as they happen

I blew it up and got the new circuits and a test bios for testing the GTM mode (update in new bios release has been in mine for awhile)

So I know mine is ahead of the curve as it's been a guinea pig for some circuit and software changes

Still the PJ transformer and case as you said 

AGAIN: oil cooling does not make heat magically disappear.

Oil cooling (or water cooling, etc.) only is valuable because it conducts heat significantly better than air.  But the heat still has to go somewhere.

In the end, UNLESS you have a stream to dump the heat into, even an "oil filled" transformer has to dissipate all of the heat in the air anyway.

Yes it will.  But not precisely enough for production-level requirements--not to mention the deburring necessary to get rid of all those metal fragments that will happily fry electronics immediately.

Like I said, I've cut down most all the heatsinks for the prototype 12kw testing by hand, with a hacksaw.  And lemme tell ya, that's NOT a production-level solution!

Sorry @dickson, but all of this is just heaps of speculative nonsense.

Yup, they've been going out to customers for over a full year 👍

More B.S. again...seriously, @dickson, where in the world do you go to come up with this nonsense?

Rev. C2 had a production run, and a C2 control board is actually what @steve has in his inverter right now.
It is also what I have been sending out to customers for the past several months--so you had better believe that they have seen a LOT of load testing.  (The Rev. C2 design is dated February 26, 2022.  Rev. C1 boards are dated even earlier than that.)

This means that the control boards Sean has right now in the 12kw inverters for load testing and more--are all Rev. C2 boards.  Oh...here's the label on the backside of a Rev. C2 board:

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In 20 days, the Genetry Rev. C2 design will be a year old.  "Not available in mass production"?  I don't think so.

I've got 3 boxes of fully completed mass-produced Rev. C3 boards at my desk right now.  Their design date is Dec. of 2022; they are ready and intended for putting into the new inverters once we get the other items purchased.  (None have gone out to customers as of yet.)

PCBs all have to be made in China.  It is simply impossibly expensive to get them made in the States--literally TEN TIMES the cost for every single board and part on them.  (That just doesn't scale...at least not to a U.S. market that lives on China prices.)  When I order the rest of the necessary boards, they'll arrive in approximately 2 weeks--so not a delay consideration compared to the transformers.

Yes, I am fully aware that lots of time getting away from us--and we do not like it one bit.  We finally gave up hope on PJ ever shipping us what we ordered before CNY--and then due to CNY we had to wait on ordering parts from our new suppliers.

You are correct, we just have the sample 12kw transformer from the new supplier.  That was a test to see if they could meet our specifications--which it looks like they can--before placing a 5-figure bulk order.  (We'd really be screwed if they messed up an entire bulk order!)
I am actively working with them right now to try to get some wire placement details worked out--but as soon as that's done, I'm placing an order for transformers.

Pretty much.  The main adjustments for Rev. C3 have to do with moving the "240v" MOV from the AC input (as it's useless at 120v levels), and putting TWO 120v MOVs on the AC output (one per split phase)--as that will fully protect both the output, and the input at either 120v/240v input.  Plus a few minor part adjustments (resistor values for battery current sense amplifier, etc.)

Tinned copper lugs, but they've soldered/welded (whatever!) the aluminum windings to the lugs.  So there's going to be no chance of bad connections there!

As soon as I get the transformer company squared away and the order placed, I'll note it in this thread.

1 hour ago, dickson said:

bus bar instead of cable

the copper busbar could be tinned in house by purchasing a inexpensive tinning machine... i saw one on aliexpress or alibaba. i forget.. about 200 bucks.

2 hours ago, dickson said:

GS6kw inverter  as it look pretty but will still only do  6kw

yes it does look pretty, but still only 6kw you can buy inverters with copper wound toroids that do 6kw right now from Alibaba. 

Addendum: your inverter has the ability for battery-side current sense: all it's missing is the current sense element (busbar or otherwise) itself.  All Rev. C boards (C1, C2, C3) have a battery current-sense amplifier circuit on them.

They'll be tinned when produced.  The prototype busbars we got are not tinned--simply because that was before CNY last year, and we barely managed to get them shipped before the shutdown.  Tinning was already shut down by that point.

And who says aluminum wound is inferior to copper wound?

It weighs less.  Costs less.  Works functionally exactly the same (if the aluminum is handled properly).  What's the big deal?

Like I've said before, I have not found a single 12kw commercially available inverter that can ship regular parcel mail (<150lbs).  They all use the exact same copper wound transformer--and I do have my doubts that they can actually sustain a 12kw load for an indefinite period of time.

Whereas the GS12 weighs well under the 150lb limit, will sustain a 12kw load, and can ship regular parcel mail.

https://www.iqsdirectory.com/articles/electric-transformer/toroidal-transformer.html

this article discussed toroid transformer plus and minus....

i think they also have another on toroid vs e-type or UI type transformers,,,,

2 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:

https://www.iqsdirectory.com/articles/electric-transformer/toroidal-transformer.html

this article discussed toroid transformer plus and minus....

i think they also have another on toroid vs e-type or UI type transformers,,,,

 

I find that toroidal transformers have considerably lower losses than a comparable E-core type transformer.  They do have a significantly higher "inrush" (larger ones will easily trip a 5A breaker if "snapped" onto the AC line).

Also due to the shape and function, the core weight should be quite a bit less, as there isn't "wasted" material all around the coils.

The two main detractions are: they're much harder to wind, and they're much harder to mount.

yes waste heat is the problem,,, how to get rid of the waste heat.... in the inverter.... if you push them to their limits they will get hot... no doubt

the big blue transformer company(Victron) from the Netherland designers uses toroids in their low frequency inverters

yes, that is the part that makes them more expensive,,,, I am guessing yours will have to have the multiple hold down brackets for shipping as did the heavy PowerJack toroids....

the e-type ui type transformers with solid copper windings have been reported to work well with minimal fans, so the jet engine noise is less... that would seem to be a big plus for that type....of transformer....

it is definitely unfortunate that GS got in the scam delays games... after 2 plus years of testing....

but maybe better in the end....🤔😎

This means that the control boards Sean has right now in the 12kw inverters for load testing and more--are all Rev. C2 boards.  Oh...here's the label on the backside of a Rev. C2 board:

Rev C2 is not in any GS6kw and GS12kw  as none are completely assemble  and ship yet .     Do the GS6kw has a new transformer that need to be load  tested ?     There is no GS 12kw with the new transformer load tested yet  ?     What if load test fail on the  GS6kw and GS12kw because of bad parts ?     Steve GS 6kw is working good but  that is not paid  by  Steve  and is only a test inverter .      The GS inverter for sale may stll need  minor changes  .        

A GS inverter is still a GS inverter even if it is a previous generation design.  And there are a good number of GS6 inverters in the field WITH Rev. C2 boards in them.  Right now.

Absolute B.S. 

Steve is a paying customer who happens to be very electrically knowledgeable--and very patient (thank you @steve)

@dicksonDo I need to block you to stop all this nonsense?

Mine was a previous unit upgraded by Sean when I bought it and upgraded further through working with Sid on improvement's

I have not seen an updated GS6.transfofmer as yet and expect those to be ordered after testing the new 12K transformer

Sid would know better than I as I'm speculating 

That's exactly the plan...because the 12kw transformer is a lot harder to make than the 6kw transformer.  So if the transformer company can get the 12kw transformer right, then the 6kw shouldn't be a problem. 

I don't think we need to "sample" the 6kw transformer before bulk ordering--though we will have them send us photos of one before they wind all of them.  The new factory met every single one of our specification requirements on the 12kw sample--except for a little quibble on where the connecting wires were positioned on the toroid.

I have not seen an updated GS6.transfofmer as yet and expect those to be ordered after testing the new 12K transformer

Thank you  and keep on testing   and post what you find .